Thursday, June 27, 2013

If She Only Knew - Thoughts on Modesty and Beauty


Guest contributor Lisa Jacobson from Club31Women

Avert your eyes, Son.

His dad started saying it to him from the youngest age - when he was only a little boy. Might have been an alluring commercial while watching the ballgame. Or a billboard while driving down the highway. A pop-up on the computer screen.

As parents, we had purposed to teach him purity from the beginning.

And you wouldn't think that would be too tough to do where we live. We're out in the country, somewhere on the outskirts of a small western town. But that hardly matters anymore.

Temptation can be found anywhere.

Even in Target.

Target? Yeah, I know. That's what I thought too. Until one day we popped in to pick up some flip-flops for the summer and I remarked how he kept bumping into things.

What is your problem, Son??

"I'm just looking down, Mom," And with a nod, he indicated the ads placed strategically above us. Billboards for the lingerie department. Yikes. I'd not seen them.

But then again...I'm not a vulnerable young man either.

Sorry, Son.

I'm sorry the Enemy tries to pull you down everywhere you turn. I feel badly we live in a world that's so ready to compromise a man's commitment to clean living. It's never been easy - only it's far worse now.

Is there nowhere a young man can safely go?

Maybe a Christian family camp. You'd think.

It was a hot July day and we all packed up and headed out for fun and fellowship with a bunch of other believers. Picnic blankets, cold watermelon, and squirt guns. It was promising to be a great day.

So I was surprised to see our oldest son hanging back from the festivities. He's an outgoing guy and usually one of the first out there mixing it up. Except not this time. He stayed close to our small spot and played with his little brothers instead.

What is your problem, Son??

He hesitated for a moment. Then answered, "Mom, I don't know what to do. Dad's taught me to 'avert my eyes', but there doesn't seem anywhere I can turn here."

I glanced around and then saw what he meant.

Most of the ladies there were dressed for a hot summer day. Many with bare skin exposed. Lots of bareness. Yikes, again. Who would have thought he'd have to wrestle with it here?

I noticed a pretty girl nearby and wondered if she realized how difficult she was making it for a guy. Surely, she would have made another choice if she had. She might have thrown a light blouse on over her tank top. Slipped on a longer, breezy skirt. Picked out some walking shorts or a shirt with a higher neckline. She might have covered herself up.

If she only understood how hard he's trying to do the right thing. She might have dressed differently. For his sake. For the sake of all the men out there who want to walk in purity.

If she only knew that the way she dressed up meant a good man needed to look down. He had to turn away from her beauty. That he was missing out on her loveliness because she was showing him more than he was meant to see.

Because we can teach our sons to avert their eyes. To lower their gaze. But what can we do as Christian women? We can't leave our guys stuck in a place where there's nowhere left to turn.

Let's choose modesty - modesty that allows a woman's true beauty to shine through.

In like matter also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation (I Tim. 2:9a).

In His grace,




Lisa is the happily-ever-after wife of Matt Jacobson, literary agent and writer, and together they enjoy raising 8 children. Please join her over at Club31Women, a blog for any wife, mother, or sister who is looking for Biblical encouragement and inspiration. 
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Thank you for your thoughts on this issue. The comments are now closed. 

239 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Amen!!! Sadly many women think it is the guys job not to "lust" and have impure thoughts.....but it is the woman's job to make it easy...not hard on them.

    Covering up does not mean dressing is bags but not showing our goods.....don't show what's not for sale.

    Iris♥ @The Blue Birdhouse

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  3. You could also teach him not to view women's bodies solely as sexual objects, but as simply human bodies. I am not going to swelter and possibly get heat exhaustion on a hot day simply because a man can't control his thoughts or impulses. Teach them other forms of self-control than just avoidance.

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    1. Dear Tovah,

      Sorry to say, but you seem to have gotten the wrong end of the stick. Where I agree with you that women's bodies are not solely sexual objects, the truth is we are sexually attractive to men... just the way God made us to be. Imagine how boring a relationship would be with my man if I wasn't sexually attractive to him? And I know the discomfort of wearing a "little more" on an August day to cover up, but I would rather sweat a little bit more than have my neighbor fall into sin. I believe that averting your eyes is a form of self-control... in the most loving way possible I feel that you are more interested in your comfort and looking sexy than you are in helping young and older men not to fall. Even I as a grown woman find it hard to to stare when another woman walks in with her cleavage exposed to the world...

      Yours,
      Tina

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    2. "heat exhaustion"? That's a little dramatic, don't you think? I don't think the only alternatives are to either die of heat exhaustion or dress provocatively. I don't do either. Nor do my girls. Frankly, when I garden, I wear long sleeves (light color, light weight material, button down the front) because it protects me from sunburn, and is no "hotter" than short sleeves when the sun is beating on you. No one has to teach a young man what a woman's body is for. If it's bared, then he knows. The fact is, a man's response is not the deciding factor in our dress (nor should it be). It's simply good to know the Christian male perspective. My dress standards are based on God's word, and I don't see anywhere that says I can't wear green. HOWEVER, if I knew for a fact that I would be around someone who was unnaturally attracted to the color green, I would NOT choose to wear it around them. What people may think that I'm unaware of is not an issue, as only a very silly person would try to say that every person's thoughts are my responsibility in that case. Obviously, I am not responsible for every thought of every person. But the Bible does seem to indicate that the breasts and thighs in particular are considered personal and intimate, and not to be revealed. If you cover those sufficiently, then I suppose modesty is fulfilled. Then there is the issue of femininity. God's word compares us as women to the Holy Spirit, whose form is never exactly declared. He is represented as flowing, as water, as wind, etc. Graceful clothing that doesn't reveal the exact line of our bodies would seem to fit that. I don't need it to be a command, I just like the beautiful comparison. Clothing that flows rather than clings is much cooler in summer, is feminine, and is modest. I taught my boy to look away if a woman showed enough to cause him to sin, or showed enough to dishonor the body God gave her (he may not lust after a 95 year old woman, but that doesn't mean her breasts should be showing!)

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    3. Tovah,
      It is also important, and rarely taught, that you are at risk as well by the way you dress. If a young (or old) man looks upon you and has lust or commits adultery with you in his mind or personal body then you have just become joined to him spiritually because that is how sex works. You,too, are now guilty of sexual sin because you were the temptress who planted the seed of lust. This isn't a popular concept today but it is truth from the Scriptures. Just remember that your choices and actions create ripples that can also pull you under.

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    4. You don't have to die of heat exhaustion to cover up, I am 27 and wear long skirts and t-shirts or tank tops. I don't see a problem with tank tops as long as they cover. Tank tops shouldn't show cleavage. Arms though I don't see a problem with. Light cotton skirts are actually cooler than some shorts.

      I also know that as a younger woman it is hard to find clothes that look good and don't show cleavage. But they can be found. No one said you have to wear a sweatshirt or sweater when it is 90+ but just cover up some. It is even hard for me to find clothes for my 4 year old daughter. Shorts shouldn't be showing a ton of leg, inseams should be at least 7inches I think.

      Also tight clothes are just as bad.

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    5. To Anonymous, from anonymous, in response to what was written to Tovah. When I was 8 years old, I was not immodestly dressed, nor am I now, in my 50's. I was not a temptress at age ate but I was a temptation to someone ruled by the flesh.

      An older man, in his 50's when I was 8 through 12, did not care how I was dressed. He molested me for 4 years and let me say this in response to being spiritually joined to him. I am not.

      I am spiritually joined to Christ because Christ died to set me free and rose again victorious over sin and the grave. To say that the physical or mental act of another can cause me to be bound by their sin is to deny the power of that act of mercy and the gift of new life in Christ. Whether a person is 8, 27, or 50, if you have been set free in Christ, you are free indeed. You are not bound to the sinful thoughts or acts of others.

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    6. I'm sorry, what??? I'm guilty of sin if a man looks at me and lusts? Am I also guilty of sin if I wear jeans and a tshirt and he still lusts? Am I guilty of sin if I wear a house dress head to toe and he's got a weirdo house dress fetish? Sorry, but no. Just no. Let's be wise in not dressing like we've got something for sale but come on. I live in Texas and today it's approximately 427 degrees outside. I'm wearing shorts and a tank. Nothing is showing. I'm not going to purposefully be scandalous but I'm not going to feel guilt over dressing for the weather.

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    7. Anonymous @ 3:53. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. It is never the fault of the victim. The idea that one person is responsible for another's bad choices it just plain wrong. What about men who are turned on my a women's ankles, or neck? Should we all wear long skirts and turtle necks, so that we won't be responsible for their ankle lust?

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    8. I love how subjective this all is. No actual Bible verse to be found, just a lot of personal opinions.

      And the claim that if a man lusts after you, you have also committed a sin? or that you have been joined with him? Incredibly anti-scriptural. That goes against every bit of personal responsibility taught in the scripture. I am responsible for myself and my actions alone.

      Are the Islamic women (covered literally head to toe) who get raped guilty of some sort of sin? Yet another example of where your argument falls completely to pieces.

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    9. I think there are some ladies that are replying to extremes to this article... How we dress does matter in the eyes of men and young men. It is an honest and sincere fact spoken from men themselves. The men that desire to be holy and pure plead that we ladies dress in a way that would not distract them. Of course, we are still attractive to them even when we are covered because God made men to be attracted to women. But, it is easier for them to focus on our souls if we are not showing our flesh. We live in a culture that says flesh is sensual. It is not embraced in innocence as when God created Adam and Eve in the garden. There came a time when they sinned in the eyes of God and both noticed they were naked and hid. Sin evades this world and satan desires to tempt us into sin in any way possible. God calls us to dress modestly. We are to follow that command because we love to honor our Lord and man. We are "set free' indeed! But, we are set free to NOT sin. We are not to do anything that would cause others to fall. Do we all fall short of this in one way or another? Yes, we do. But, the intentions of our hearts should be to put others ahead of ourselves and to honor God in all that we do and say. People of the desert do not wear tanks and shorts, they wear long flowing clothes that protects them from the sun and still allows the air flow to cool them. I am not saying we have to be totally covered... I am saying that saying you have to wear less to be cool is a misconception. May we be open in our perspectives and not be defensive to this article. This article speaks truth... Truth.

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    10. Thank you for just telling the truth. I know that one day I will be held accountable for my motives, even to the way I dressed. I am a 46 year old mom. It is the attitude and motives that disturb me the most concerning this subject. Moms need to be the example of what a lady dresses like. My daughter who is now 24, really taught me a lesson. I was going out on a date with her dad. She was about 12 years old then. I was wearing a leather skirt above the knee and a blouse. A little more revealing than my normal wear, but it was for our wedding anniversary. As I was getting ready to leave, she saw what I was wearing. She had a funny look on her face. She wispered to me, "You are going to wear that ?". I was at a stand still. I had to make a decision fast. She didn't want her mother to be dressed like that. So, I turned around and changed clothes.More was said but I can't recall. Let me say, throughout her teenage years, there was a respect made that day. She would always accept my opinion about her clothes, because I respected her opinion. Oh, women be cautious to demand your "right" while believing you will not be held accountable one day.

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  4. This is a fantastic article. Thanks for sharing. We work with youth at our church and I know exactly what you mean! It's getting outrageous and we are still a pretty "conservative" denomination but that doesn't even seem to matter anymore. My husband and I don't have kids yet but it is hard not to be3 disappointed in the parents (especially the dads) that let their daughters dress like that. Kudos to you for your parenting choices! Sounds like you have a fine young man for a son!

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  5. A very refreshing article. I recently read "The Things We Hide Behind" by Tim Robinson (I think I got the name right...) and he pointed out that in the verse on modesty, that word modesty actually doesn't apply to this concept as much as "shamefacedness and sobriety" do. In our day, shame has come to mean something so different, with so many people having no real idea how to feel ashamed when they do shameful things. He drew a comparison on the concept of the Holy Spirit and the flowing garments that women traditionally wear that was lovely. The point has been made that "some men are tempted by ridiculous things like ankles" and that excuse used to wear whatever is comfortable and "fits in" to the occasion, so it is especially nice to hear this view from a godly young man. I hope every Christian woman will treat her vessel as worthy of honor, rather than say "I'm old, no one will be tempted". Beauty is part of our being, and acknowledging that honors our Creator.

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  6. I have two young boys, 4 and 6, and I already have been surprised at the temptation that is hitting my 6 year old. He just graduated from kindergarten, but he already came home one day telling me about what his friend (a girl) had said to him. As a mommy, hearing my son say that the girl said she would kiss him in her closet if he came to her house just blew me away. Kindergarten! At a Christian school! Something stirred inside me at that moment, but I haven't known how to start with him since he is so little. I didn't expect it so early. I love that your son was brought up so well as to keep his eyes lowered to keep his heart pure. How did you start with him and at what age? I would love for my sons to have that type of self-control and respect for themselves and women as they grow.

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  7. I do understand where you're coming from... and believe that young women today dress... inappropriately..

    But what about a different process... what about NOT teaching that women are objects for sexual gratification? We've gone OUT of our way to teach that a woman's breasts are no more sexual than her elbow... unless my son sexualizes her... But that that is HIS decision to make her into that object. He averts his eyes when it's truly necessary... he's 13 and easily embarrassed... but by hiding paerts away and TEACHING that they should be hidden... we've in fact MADE them more taboo as a culture...

    my pastors were the ones who encouraged me to think about this from another angle... from the view of desexualizing shoulders and bellies and thighs in shorts... so before you bash me, realize this was a well thought out and much prayer upon decision. and a decision made when he was TINY... an infant... begun by not hiding myself from him and not hiding HIS nakedness at home.

    I just am saying there's more to it than teaching a girl to wear a burka because it might make some boy have lust...there's also got to be some point where we change what we're teaching our boys...

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    1. Well said, Mel. My thoughts exactly and I am a mom of two boys, 14 year old and 2 year old.

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    2. Dear Mel,

      If I understand you right you let your son see you naked? No offense... but I'd love to see his future wife's reaction to that! Women's breasts are sexual... get over it! We happen to have more to cover than dudes, but I feel like saying I don't need to cover my breasts up is the same as a guy wearing his pants half down... think it through people!

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    3. I don't think anyone is talking about burka's here Mel. The fact is the male is very visual and the female body is a temptation to him. I have two sons who I desire to teach to honor and respect women. We don't wear clothes because it is hot, we wear them because God gave them because of sin. While males are tempted to view women in a sexual way (pornography), females are tempted to commit pornography. That is to expose their bodies in a sexual way. It is selfish and ungodly to say, "Well they just need to quit viewing women as sex objects." Young girls are just as responsible as the young men to not act like sex objects. Especially if they are Christian girls, they should have enough love for their brothers in Christ to not get a power kick out of creating a stumbling block for them. Again, no one is talking burkas or even frumpy, it would just be nice to take my sons to the grocery store without cleavage and worse constantly stuck in their faces. It sounds like this young man is doing everything he can to keep a godly thought life. Good for him.

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    4. My understanding of Biblical standards is to cover breasts and thighs, simply put. I don't allow tanks or sleeveless, because even though some are modest (in my opinion) I don't want someone to be inspired to wear sleeveless tops that are NOT modest because I wore sleeveless (even though it might be modest). Even a tiny little sleeve will do, just so it's enough to say there's a sleeve. I don't think anything in the Bible indicates that arms need to be covered, I just don't want a big armhole to reveal my breast or bra. Same with thighs. I won't wear a pencil skirt because I can't sit comfortably without it riding up. I've never seen a girl in a pencil skirt who wasn't either uncomfortable or showing some thigh. A more flowing skirt that only goes to the knee would be fine as long as it wasn't a game of "peek a boo" all day. Cover the breasts, cover the thighs (including clinging to the exact shape as most pants do). My girls and I have extremely different styles in our dress, and following those simple rules gives us a lot of flexibility to express our individual personalities. Just my 2 cents :P (oh, and my "sleeveless" rule is especially important as a pastor's wife - if you don't think you're an example someone might follow, I guess you could ditch that one, but really, we all have "followers" in one way or another...)

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    5. Ok, so we were created naked. That's how things were meant to be...in a perfect world. But, when Adam and Eve sinned, they realized their nakedness and were ashamed! Embarrassed! They wanted to cover up. There is just something about being naked that does not seem right to our human nature. We no longer live in a perfect world! And yes, teaching your son to not view a woman's body as a sexual object is a great thing. Props to you! However, not every parent sees things that way. Some parents encourage their sons to look at every girl as a sex object. So, while we should dress modestly to ultimately please God and to help out our brothers in Christ, another reason to do it is so those creeps out there aren't ogling us and thinking nasty thoughts about us. Yes, they may do this if we are completely covered, but it's way easier for them when we wear things that don't leave much up to the imagination.

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    6. Very well said, Mel, I love your approach and find it much more in line with the Biblical approach of personal responsibility.

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    7. Man was not created naked. He was covered with glory and majesty as God and the angels are. He lost that covering of Christ's righteousness after sin. Adam and Eve did not walk around the garden of Eden nude.

      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

      What is God’s image? How is He covered?

      Psalm 104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
      104:2 Who coverest [thyself] with light as [with] a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

      God is covered with majesty and honour and LIGHT as a garment. If God is covered and made man in his image, how did He then create man in the beginning? Would not man also have been made with a covering of LIGHT at the beginning of his creation?

      This sinless pair wore no artificial garments. They were clothed with a covering of light and glory, such as the angels wear. While they lived in obedience to God, this circle of light enshrouded them. Signs of the Times, Jan. 9, 1897. {BLJ 227.5}

      In other words, the sinless pair were covered from their neck, to their feet in a garment of light. You could not see their limbs.

      Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

      They were naked in the sense that they wore no artificial garments – they were covered in majesty and honour – a covering of light. Man was covered like the angels are. We know this because the angels are also covered with the same garment.

      The Angels
      Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou has put all things in subjection under his feet.

      Psalm 8:5 For thou has made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
      John 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

      Luke 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

      Matthew 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

      After sin what happened?

      Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

      They clothed themselves in fig leaves which was not sufficient coverage. Fig leaves as a covering were the first miniskirts and shorts the world wears today. While they were yet standing in their fig leaves however, God presented the story of redemption to them.

      Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

      He told them about Jesus. There and then in their fig leaves they repented. After their change of heart, God then covered them as the fig leaves were insufficient.

      Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

      God had to make coats of skin for them as their fig leaf loin coverings were not enough

      http://sabbathsermons.com/2009/07/24/dress-reform-in-the-bible/

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    8. Womens bodies are sexual when put in a sexual situation or made that way in someones mind.
      Teach your son to see the person behind the clothes and the clothes won't matter anymore. And no breasts were first and foremost objects for the nurishment and comfort of infants. They were only sexual between lovers, they became sexual objects during womens suffrage when women started feeding babies formula so they were free to do what they wished. So suddenly the breast went from the perfect way to feed and comfort infants to...what?...the only other function they had, to pleasure their man. So they became very sexualized as a community.

      I teach my sons that the human body is just that, a body with a precious soul inside, the soul is what matters. The body only becomes sexual when the other person allows it to be in their own minds and actions.

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  8. I understand that you are trying to teach your son to "do the right thing," but I think you are doing him a disservice by making him literally afraid to interact with women. What about teaching him to look women in the eyes rather than avoid them altogether?

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    1. I'm sorry, but you might have misunderstood. I don't know how you concluded that he was "afraid" to interact with women? On the contrary, he is a thriving student at college with many friends - both girls and guys.

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    3. I do agree with this article to an extent. I do, however believe that so much responsibility is put directly on women to "help" men avoid lusting. We cannot be the moral force that prevents them from lusting. We are not responsible for their decision to sin. And while other women may encourage it with their dress, just as many women are dressed modestly and are lusted after just the same. Men these days have to learn how to immediately look up to a woman's face. Life is not like it used to be and men have to learn to prevent their own sin just as much as we do. Let's put the responsibility on both. I say, "Son...avert your eyes. Bodies are not what we need to look at. Look at their faces! If you don't look at their faces you are going to fall on your own face, because the temptation is everywhere!" Don't teach men to look down. Teach them to rise above what is "expected" of them (to lust after a woman's body), and take responsibility for their own lust.

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    4. Excellent thoughts, GipsonISDmomma!

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    5. If we are not responsible for our own modesty, then who is? People are all for jumping on the "help each other" train until it involves something like this. I am all for Helping keep men safe, I have boys and would thank women for being so considerate in their dress in their presence. I would also be so proud of my boys for averting their eyes when they feel that they need to, that is manhood in action, and a commendable act of self-control.

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  9. Your article is so appreciated. We see this in our church, as well. As a woman, I don't want to see others cleavage, tummy, or flesh above the knee. There is a middle aged man in our church that has confessed to being addicted to porn and has gone through extensive counseling for this problem. It must be very difficult for him to walk into church and see those who don't cover up. Modesty is true beauty.

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    1. Actually, your fears for the addicted man in church are misplaced. If he were a true pornography addict, the women he encounters in daily life are probably not enough to arouse him. A bit of cleavage at church will not phase a person addicted to pornography; in fact, many pornography addicts have trouble becoming aroused by actual sexual encounters in which the women are, presumably, completely undressed.

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    2. "unknown" ^ that is a complete misconception. Men who have sexual addiction ARE aroused by such displays. When they are on the road to recovery any such display can derail their progress if they do not avoid it at all costs. It's like smoking near a person who just quit, they will try to get some "second hand" if they don't leave.

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  10. I can appreciate parts of this post but I think it's sad that this young boy feels he always has to look down. Yes, the sexualization in our culture is unfortunate but I don't think it's going away. In the recent past I have started to think more about modesty & would like to make more of an effort to dress more modestly. It won't happen overnight, I haven't had it in the budget to shop for myself for clothes in a long time! However I'm not sure that teaching our sons to never look or that the female body is the "forbidden fruit" is healthy. Teach them to respect females & their beauty, and that their body doesn't have to be a sexual object. A woman with a large chest could be wearing a tshirt & still have a lot "showing" so to say in her shape. I Feel this kind of pigeon holes CHristians into this tiny box where your son can't even talk to a girl because she is wearing a tank top or has a little skin showing. I think all we can do is raise young boys who are respectful and I will do my part in raising my dtr to respect herself and dress as such :)

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  11. Children do not see naked bodies as inherently sexual things; do you realize that by teaching your sons to think like this, you are accomplishing the opposite of what you intend? Now it is impossible for your sons to look at women without seeing temptation. Once you've been told that the female body is merely a temptation, there is nothing that can cover it up enough. Even knowing that there's a naked body somewhere underneath all those layers is a temptation. A woman's mere existence is now somehow a sexual thing, and your children are incapable of interacting with women as anything other than possible sex objects. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy... By bringing sexual thoughts to your child's attention, you have created a life-long obsession with sex. Instead, if you focus on teaching your kids that the female body is strong, useful, and beautiful, they might actually learn to respect women.

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    1. Bingo... we have a winner. Thinking like this is demeaning to both men and women and their abilities to be decent human beings.

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    2. This is not true. My husband has raised our boys to be this way and they all have a very healthy idea of sex and sexuality. They are 20, 15, and 12. My husband has not only taught them not to gawk at a girl who is just hungry for attention, but also to respect her, whether she is properly dressed or not. This comes from a man who was handed playboy at puberty by his own 'free thinking' father, and encouraged to see woman as sex objects. His mother and sisters were not at all opposed to walking around in their bras and panties in front of him (or in front of anyone, really). He had a porn issue early in our marriage and has worked very hard to overcome it with God's grace, even counseling other men who struggle with seeing a woman for her value as a person but instead as something to desire for his own pleasure. So the absolute opposite of what you describe is what we have experienced.

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    3. As far as children being non-sexual, no - they certainly can be! As a pre-schooler, I discovered that laying on my tummy and rubbing myself against the floor gave me a really good feeling that came to a peak and then stopped. I liked doing it, but my parents said not to. I didn't get a shameful feeling; they simply said, "Honey, no wriggling." (they knew what I was doing)

      And my 7 yr old son is very fascinated with my breasts. He likes to poke them because they're fun to squish, but I stop him after one time and he grins, raises his eyebrows innocently with charm. I want my bosom to be a comforting place when we hug or lay down, but not a free-for-all. I dress modestly but if my cleavage ever happens to show, he points it out (my older son never did that). I also noticed him staring at curvaceous young girls in bikinis and tight camisoles. He's very artistic and notices colors and fine details, so I know he's visually inclined.

      I agree with this article overall, and yet keep in mind that Cain needed no outside influences such as violent movies/ video games/ media/ parents/ friends/drugs. The urge to kill came from within, not without.

      Jesus said, "Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather it is what comes out of a person that defiles them."

      Paul said, "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body."

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  12. An interesting post, indeed. My husband and I have been discussing modesty lately -- in particular, how it applies to our teenage daughter. What we've found, however, is that everyone defines it differently. While I could certainly understand how a skimpy bikini might tempt a man's eyes (young or otherwise), I have questions with a tank top doing so. Or a pair of shorts or a skirt. How short is too short? At the knees? One inch above the knees? Two inches? Then again, it's all a matter of degrees and all tank tops/shorts/skirts aren't the same. Still, it can be confusing because we each have a different standard of modesty.

    Thanks for a thought-provoking post.

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    1. I can see what you mean and agree that there's not "one standard" of modesty. That's one of the reasons that I didn't want to define it here (besides, that's still on ongoing discussion in our own home :)). But I do think that's worth considering? What is? What might not be?

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    2. Exodus 28:42 says, "And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:" I would say that the Bible is saying that anything from the loins to the thigh is immodest.

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    3. but what part of the thigh?

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    4. THE thigh. Equates to covering the entirety of it. As close to the knee, without exacting it to be covered is the result. 1" above? 2", as she asks above? Discernment comes into play, assessing our motives and appearance, and perhaps inquiring of someone trusting and also discerning for opinion as a safeguard from our own blind spots.

      Thank you for this piece!!! I love what you identified, and how you articulated it, without really having anything that can really have holes poked into. The heart is right, and that is truly encouraging for me, as a 30 year old, pushing back intentionally against being a temptress. I don't want to fall, therefore I wish to avoid pride. The Lord bless you and your family!

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  13. Beautiful! Just Beautiful! I appreciate this so much. I have an almost 11 year old son who is staring to take notice. It is my and my husband's desire to teach him to be pure. Every young girl should read this, and realize that she does not have to conform to the world's standard of beauty.

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  14. Wow! What a beautiful post! You worded this in such a gracious manner when you could have just blasted women for their clothing choices! You did an excellent job of showing us that our actions may not hurt us but they can hurt others.

    Thank you!
    Rebecca at A Prairie Princess

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  15. I don't think girls do understand. Our culture has turned scant dressing into something that is the norm. To them they are just dressing cutely. Sure they've heard it from their moms but a lot of that is met with "oh Mom". Just a thought, but I think guys, including dads, need to start speaking up on how it affects them.

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    1. I agree with this to a point. But if men speak out you will have a lot of women that will think they are pigs for looking. I believe a lot of women dress the way they do to impress both men and women. Too many women have the thinking of "it's my body, I can do what I want". Even Christian women, unfortunately. I wish more women would consider others, but we live in a world where consideration for others is a thing of the past.

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    2. Excellent point,original poster. Dads DO need to do exactly that. Thanks for the insight.

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  16. It is nearly impossible to keep your sons from seeing immodestly dressed women since they are everywhere, even in church...It is a sad situation. All you can do is teach them God's Word continually as they grow up. Hide God's Word in their heart so they won't sin against Him.

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  17. What a wonderful son you both have raised!

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  18. i am interested i knowing what the young girl at the beach was wearing? I too agree modesty is VERY important. and have taught my daughters this. but a tank top is not something i feel is unmodest. as long as it its not a cami.

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    1. While I purposely attempted to be somewhat vague (not wanting to dictate what determined "modesty"), I was referring to a rather skimpy tank/cami top.

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  19. Thank You Lord Jesus Christ for sisters who are warmly happy being Modest.

    Ransome, CHO

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  20. This is a great article, and really well written. I think it's sweet that your boys avert their eyes, and amazing that you have taught them to do so. I think that it will become increasingly difficult for them to walk anywhere without the non-stop sex-in-their-face. How do we teach our kids to cope with what has become a cultural norm, how do we help them build up a "resistance" to feeling tempted by those things?

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    1. A woman wearing shorts and a tank top at an outdoor event in the summer does not equal "sex-in-anyone's-face". She actually equals a "human dressed appropriately for the season and place". She is not the problem. The problem is parents who teach their boys to equate a woman's legs or arms with sex.

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  21. Beautifly said. Love this- If she only knew that the way she dressed up meant a good man needed to look down.- What a great way to put it. I have 3 girls and a boy (all under 4) and I think it is so important to teach the boys to look away and the girls to dress so the boys don't have too! Thank you!

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  22. I really love this. Raising teen boys is so very difficult in this overly exposed world.

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  23. Thank you for this! I really hope to see this message being spread more and more. I truly believe that most women and girls have never been given this perspective. Sure, you will have some who stubbornly cling to the insistence that its 'the guys problem' and she shouldn't have to worry about it. But I believe there are some who have just never thought about it this way and might realize their responsibility, not only for the sake of the men around them, but more importantly the example they provide to the young girls around them.

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  24. I understand this, but I also have a problem with it. I'm the mother of teen boys and young men too, and I get that some women dress very inappropriately. But I am weary of women's bodies always being "the problem." In my view, "the problem" is the rampant sexualization and objectification of women's bodies in our culture. The idea that a young woman can't wear a bathing suit or shorts and a tank top while at a camp setting on a hot summer day seems absurd to me. No 21st century American bathing suit meets the standards for being appropriate attire that you've laid out here. So young women should sit on the bank in their long breezy skirts and blouses while the young men swim and do things and actually have fun? Sorry, I just can't buy that, and don't think that being a Christian requires it.

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    1. Thank you, I completely agree. I have 3 daughters and while I don't let them wear provocative clorhing, we live in Florida and it is hot!! According to this article my daughters should wear pants and long sleeve shirts while the boys swim and have a good time? I make sure my girls wrar bathing suits that cover their bottoms and tops and no bikinis.

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    2. I agree as well. I also believe that there's a difference between appreciating a male/female form and lusting after it. I think the difference is in our hearts and answerable only to God. I have 2 boys, and have every intention of teaching them that girls and women were made the way they were made for a reason. It's biological and chemical and there's nothing wrong with that, BUT there's a major problem with lusting and coveting.

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    3. Totally agree!!!!

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    4. Actually, you are wrong about the 21st-century American bathing suit. Yes, the typical and popular ones are completely immodest, but there are several companies that make appropriate, modest swimwear. I should know, I have one such ensemble. One place to look is at http://www.Simply-Modest.com Or you could just Google "modest swimwear". I'm sure you would be amazed at what comes up. So no need to miss out on fun, and no need to drive our men to distraction.

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    5. There's no biblical support for making women's bodies the problem. But, there is direct teaching in the Bible, to Christian women, that dressing immodestly is a problem - to be corrected by dressing modestly. Wasn't that the point?

      If Club31Women focuses on the guy's responsibility in an upcoming post, would she deserve a slap-down because she didn't cover the woman's responsibility? Just asking.

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  25. Several of my readers sent me this post since I write a weekly series on modesty on my blog. Cheers to you for making this important point! Lisa~

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  26. Thanks for this article. This is so needed in today's world.

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  27. There are many women/ girls who dress inappropriately in this world, for sure, but what you have described, a girl in a tank top and shorts on a hot summer day of outside activities--that's not immodest, that's dressing appropriately for the weather. If she had been traipsing around family camp in a skimpy bikini (and there wasn't a pool/beach involved), I'd call that immodest. You cannot expect a stranger to dress For Your Son, that is absurd. I applaud how you are trying to raise your son, but if can't play games at summer camp with a girl in a tank and shorts, something is wrong on his end. A lingerie ad hanging from Target's ceiling, I get it, I agree. But I disagree about the girl at camp.

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    1. I disagree...while we live in Florida, my girls still have no cami rule. Camis frequently show cleavage and allow no modesty when playing a game or leaning over. They are also meant to be form fitting. All three of my daughters are stylish, beautiful young women, but they are limiting what they allow the world to see. They aren't ashamed of their bodies but they are treasuring them. They would hate to run off a good young man because they chose to wear a camisole (which used to be considered underwear) and too short shorts to a church event.

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    2. I can't imagine that a lingerie ad at Target would be so scary. Target doesn't even sell actual revealing lingerie. Just bras, underwear and basic sleepwear.

      And making young men frightened of seeing a woman's thigh or arm is so not going to lead to a healthy sexuality later in his life.

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    3. As I read the article, I didn't get that the young boy couldn't enter games at the camp but that immodestly dressed women make a young guy's life more difficult than it would be if christian women would heed the Scripture that says God has an opinion of how they dress.

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    4. Is the issue in the definitions or in the principle? I think it's in the principle.

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  28. I love this post Lisa. It truly is a problem for young men (and adult men) who are trying to do the right thing. I suppose as Christian women, we need to teach the young ladies and girls (and sadly some of the adult women) how to dress modestly so as not to cause men and boys to stumble. Again, I will say, it is a real problem, especially during the warmer weather (but all year round).

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  29. Anonymous, here's a place that provides modest swim attire for ladies: http://www.meanttobemodest.com If modesty is worth it enough to us--which it should be--there are ways to dress appropriately and modestly for all occasions.

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  30. I think this is a wonderful post. The Bible also talks about not being a stumbling block to others. Even if what you're doing is not sin, if it causes a brother to stumble, you should refrain. No one said that women had to wear sweaters in the hot summer and the article said nothing about wearing pants and a long sleeve shirt. It's about covering up (a light covering) the areas that might be offensive to someone else. What happened to thinking about others before ourselves? Boys are wired to think about sex more than women. Why can't we help them by being modest instead of choosing to please ourselves?

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  31. This reminds me of something I witnessed a few weeks ago. My family and I went to our favorite restaurant and as Hubby was paying for our meals, me and the kids stood by the door. I noticed two teen girls come out of the back room. One was dressed in very short shorts and skimpy top and she was pretty and had very long legs. Two older teenage boys were sitting in front of us facing the girls. The man with the boys was about 50 years old and was facing me. Both the man and boys where literally foaming at the mouth over this girl. We walked out behind the girls and they were all giggly at the boys attention. I wanted say, "Honey, you are giggling at the boys looking at you, but you were NOT aware of the 50 year old man thinking the same thoughts toward you. Is that REALLY the kind of attention you want? It doesn't matter if they are 50 or 16, you create the same affect on both when you dress like that. Please think about it."

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  32. If she only knew that the way she dressed up meant a good man needed to look down. He had to turn away from her beauty. That he was missing out on her loveliness because she was showing him more than he was meant to see.- My favorite part!!! Love the article!! Thank you

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  33. Well, as a young lady (18) I wanted to give my view on this... Girls at my church (Christian Evangelical Church) are taught that it is the man's responsibility to avert their eyes. Up until recently I believed that it was the man's job and that it was his fault if he found my clothing seductive. During a long conversation with one of my older brother's in Christ, he mentioned (after I asked for an opinion on the length of a skirt - dumb thing to ask a guy I know :D) that I was sorta asking for it. I got mad (classic reaction for me) and told him it was his fault. In a loving manner he asked me "How is it my fault that you dress to impress sexually" then it hit me - I was getting mad at guys for the exact thing I wanted them to do - find me sexually attractive. And truthfully my flesh wants guys to stare at me when I walk by, but I also want that experience with my future Husband. I want him to see me in such a state for the first time and know in his heart that he is the only one I want to see me in this way. Sexuality is a huge part of being a guy, and I for one don't want to be a stumbling block for my brothers in Christ. I hope this helps! :) toodles ~Jess

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    1. Well done, Jess! May you have this wisdom as you grow older in life and in Christ and pass it on to your chidlren.

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  34. Thank you! As a mom of boys, it's tough to look around and figure out how to help my sons navigate the difficulties that are just everywhere!

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  35. Setting standards is a tricky thing...
    You have made an excellent point in reminding women of their responsibility to consider the effect they are having on men. I get that, and I agree.
    I have daughters and sons. We have never tried to make a perfect world of no temptations for them. Your sons will find temptations. They must know how to handle those temptations. Our daughters can't be left to their naïveté. They must be made aware of what clothing is appropriate, prayerfully considering the appropriate dress. Dads must step up to encourage their girls to be classy.
    That said, ultimately, we MUST teach our children to value people.
    We must not look down on a girl who dresses in a way that causes a boy to need to look away. If anything, those are the very girls who need most to be treated with respect, dignity, and utmost care. Those are the girls who need most to be protected!
    Too often the most sexually aggressive and provocative dressing young ladies are the same ladies who have great struggles. They are the girls without daddies to protect them. They are the girls who have been abused, neglected, and hurt. Some are simply girls who have never been encouraged to consider her actions carefully.
    Christian men need to be encouraged not to look away, but to call those girls to higher places, protecting them and treating them in a way that restores their dignity.

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    1. It's hard to call the local pornography shop (Victoria Secrets, among many others) to higher places, don't you think? I'm with the article's advice to young men: Don't gaze (fantasize) at pictures of scantily clad females.

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  36. I only want to say that it takes both parts. The girl to take care of her appearance and the boy to take care of his thoughts... both focusing in God.

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    1. Exactly!! Good point - it the responsibility does not rest only on one or the other.

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    2. I don't think the writer was saying that the responsibility was all on women. It was a post for women about their responsibility (according to the Bible). But, you are right - all parties have responsibility, here.

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  37. I am the mother of a son 32, and three daughters 28, 27 and 24. I find this post interesting as I have never had to deal with the modesty issue with my daughters or the respect of women issue with my son. I taught my daughters and son to respect other people and respect themselves and the modesty issue never was a problem. I do not believe my daughters should have walked around half naked but I also do not believe my son was ever so lacking of self control that the sight of bare skin would have made him behave disrespectfully to a woman. I believe it's more what we teach about respect for ourselves and for fellow human beings then what we teach about proper dress.

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  38. This really disgusts me. Feelings, even the "impure" ones; are an inevitable part of life. Children need to be taught how to handle feelings appropriately and responsibly. Otherwise, they end up as confused adults later in life. You can't control what other people do, but you can control how you react to it. Asking society to change because you aren't comfortable with how it makes you feel is unrealistic and irresponsible.

    This reiterates the "If a woman is raped, she's asking for it" mentality.


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    1. That is a ridiculous argument. If you walk around with money hanging out of your pockets, are you asking to be robbed? No. Then why do you not? Because it isn't wise. Wisdom tells us that we should act in modest ways, love of our brothers tells us we should take care to not cause them to stumble.

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    2. I believe what the Club31Women was trying to do was encourage christian women to embrace what the Bible teaches. Which, understandably, a lot of people take issue with. As to controlling what others do - you're right - can't do it. What this article was saying, I think, was that the Bible is teaching christian women that they should control what they do: dress modestly.

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  39. Oh I love this post. My husband & I are constantly seeing the temptation out today. Our boys are 5 & 7yrs old & it is so scary. Thank you for such a great post.

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    1. Are you a Christian? Because if you are, you need to consider that the Bible tells us to not be afraid and that we are not tempted beyond what we can bear. It is actually unscriptural for you to teach your sons to fear a woman wearing shorts or a bikini or even nothing at all.

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  40. Thank you! Now more than ever our sons and daughters are being hit with so much sexuality. They can't escape it on TV, magazines, books, movies, music videos and worst on social media, which is all the next generation knows! Praise God for a great post! Thank you! God Bless---Darcy Shetler

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  41. Loved this post! It was such a blessing and really gives me- an 18 year old girl- some things to think about. Modesty is very important to me and as females you sometimes don't realize the impact and influence your clothing has. It is so important that we don't make any men stumble. Thank you for these words today. They were a blessing.

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    1. Honey, two things you should learn now before you get much older:

      1--God gave you a body and never commands that you be ashamed of it.
      2--It is perfectly normal to be attracted to people and have people be attracted to you.

      A friend of mine internalized what you say here so deeply that she found herself in a horrible marriage because she had decided that physical and even emotional attraction was a sin. In case you didn't know, marrying someone you don't like and aren't attracted to doesn't make you extra holy; it just makes you miserable.

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  42. I am the mother of a son 32, and three daughters 28, 27 and 24. I find this post interesting as I have never had to deal with the modesty issue with my daughters or the respect of women issue with my son. I taught my daughters and son to respect other people and respect themselves and the modesty issue never was a problem. I do not believe my daughters should have walked around half naked but I also do not believe my son was ever so lacking of self control that the sight of bare skin would have made him behave disrespectfully to a woman. I believe it's more what we teach about respect for ourselves and for fellow human beings then what we teach about proper dress.

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    1. It's about what the Bible teaches: The Principle of modesty. And about how we apply that principle. Inherent in the principle of modesty is respect for self and others.

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  43. as with any issue, the responsibility of how someone dresses falls on parents first, if you're talking children who can't purchase clothing on their own, based on age. As the children get older, the less responsive our kids are to us, as parents, the more responsible they are to God. As a mother with sons and daughters, our sons grow in Godliness and responsibility as providers and as husbands, who protect and guard their families. We teach our sons, that when they see young women who are over exposed, who obvious are not informed, our sons should place themselves in a position of understanding and protection of their NOT KNOWING.if it means turning their head, offering them a cover or whatever course needs to be taken, our daughters will learn how to cover their body not to hide what's on the outside but to honor what's on the inside. It starts with being a responsible parent, then it trickles into being a prayerful parent. and then to our children and their choices they will make. Thanking God for Godly instruction and knowledge that we can turn to wisdom for the life. Also, not allowing the world influences to be where our guidelines start.

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    1. How on earth do you think it would in any situation whatsoever be respectful or appropriate for a man to offer a woman a "cover"????

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  44. This just made me cry. For weeks this has been on my heart. As a Mom of a very modest 20 year old daughter it is difficult for me to grasp young ladies today. My 18 year old son is as straight and narrow as they come, there is no grey with him, only black and white (thank God!). He treats women with respect and dignity. However, I also have a 12 year old. It seems the last few years have just exploded with improper adds EVERYWHERE! It is so hard to teach him to respect the girls in the youth group when they do not act like young ladies. I recently did a Bible study and a big part of it was on the fact that males are such visual creatures. I also read Love & Respect and it all opened my eyes to how bombarded our husbands and sons are with temptation. I've been on my knees praying ever since!

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  45. Usually when I disagree with something I read online, I keep silent, preferring to
    be content that we are all entitled to our own opinions and that not everyone's will be
    the same. I saw this shared on Facebook this morning though, and I really feel the need
    to make a comment.
    I appreciate the encouragement toward modesty, and think it is important to teach our
    girls the reasons behind it.
    However, considering tank tops immodest, is really, in my opinion, way too far a stretch.
    Any bare skin, at all really should not be considered too risqué . But, to each his
    (her) own.
    You appear to be a thoughtful, caring parent, striving to raise Godly children, and I
    appreciate that. The thing in this blog that really, seriously concerns me is that, as
    many times as this young man was told to "avert his eyes" there is no mention
    of teaching him a godly response or a gentlemanly way to handle the temptations that no
    doubt he will encounter in life.
    As much as we can encourage young women in modesty, we cannot control everything we
    come into contact with in our world, but we can control our response to it. And, in this
    case , I suspect that even those of us who think we are succeeding at modesty would fall
    really short when the observer finds tank tops immodest.
    How about teaching your son that God made our bodies, and made us to be attracted to
    each other, and not only that, gave us guidelines in the Bible as to the proper use and
    direction for that attraction.
    How about teaching our children that our bodies and the feelings of attraction are not
    shameful. God gave us those, but He also told us, Biblically, about the proper use for
    them.
    How about teaching our sons that while they may be exposed to things they are not
    meant to see, not to be ashamed that its nice to look at, but to realize that :
    A gentleman doesn't ogle, so practice self control.
    One day this will be something you will enjoy with your wife. That's Gods purpose for all
    this attractiveness. So use your time to practice self control. Knowing that as you
    practice respecting women as someone's daughter, and someone's future wife, you will be
    training your thoughts to properly handle the temptations set before your eyes.
    I think back to the example of the Christian picnic where the young man didn't know where
    to look as there was bare skin all around. This worries me, as it seems that a precedent
    for shame is being set.
    I might mention that in criminology, it's noted that nearly all serial killers were
    made to feel a sense of shame at a young age regarding natural impulses. Please
    understand I'm not suggesting you're giving your children serial killer tendencies.
    Simply, that creating shame in regards to normal biological responses is usually a
    terrible idea.
    And I feel very strongly that the most valuable things we can teach our children are not
    shame and hiding from the world, but how to properly deal with the world we live in, in a
    Godly way .
    So, thank you, for wanting to encourage modesty, but please don't overlook teaching young
    men, not simply to avert their eyes, but to learn God's instruction and intention for the
    desires He has given us, and encouraging your sons to put that into practice in their
    lives rather that simply trying to avoid and feel ashamed.

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    1. Shameful? Didn't see that. Rather, that a woman's body is sacred and that God has stated in His Word that women are to dress modestly. It's not a law but a principle to be applied by seeking how we might live holy lives among each other.

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  46. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9hkpqoPyD4

    The evolution of the swimsuit -

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  47. Thank you for your article, and I am sorry for the negative reactions you have received. As you well know, it is a very sensitive topic. I am a mom of 3 -- two of them are boys, ages 14 & 12. This is a subject that has become very dear to my heart in the last couple of years as I pray for wisdom in how to teach my boys to cope with the sexual temptations that are everywhere. In general, young ladies are naive to the full effect they have on young men when they dress provocatively. We need to educate them and encourage them to be modest. I agree that we cannot set definite lines of what is modest/what is not --- we have to let the convictions come from the Holy Spirit. We need to not be afraid to discuss the issue, and ask ourselves & the Lord, as ladies, how we can avoid being stumbling blocks to the men around us. So thank you for being willing to stick your neck out and speak up.

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  48. I am so grateful that you are raising up Godly children. It is so refreshing to know that I am not alone. In reading the comments left by other readers, I think people are truly missing the point. Whether we agree on specific standards of modesty or not, teaching any measure of modesty and respect for our bodies is the Godly thing to do. I believe that God will give you what he expects of you and what your personal standards should be. However, there are specific Biblical teachings and requirements that you can find on your own through study. I believe if we teach our children, both male and female, that they need to respect their bodies and the bodies of others we can also teach them to "avert" their eyes and attention without what some are calling "fear to interact". When you teach your daughter that her body is hers and only to be shared with her husband and you teach your son the same thing, they will gravitate toward modesty on their own. The key here is "teach" them...so many people have it in their minds that it is "required". I gladly cover my body and I don't think of it as a "requirement", I do it because I love God and I respect myself and my husband too much to "flaunt" my goodies to the public. The bible teaches us to not be a "stumbling block" to our brethren...I think if you are dressing to be provocative and sexual, you are purposefully placing yourself as a stumbling block. You can be modest and still "dress for weather". As women, we do have to be careful, because even in dressing modestly we have to worry about the "peek a boo" affect...I have to battle my neck line and hem lines, but also have to be aware of what happens when I bend over...neck lines fall and skirts rise! I am not saying that to anyone but me...it bothers me and is something that is a personal standard. I do not fault someone else for it happening to them. I just think, we as Christians, need to be more aware of ourselves and our surroundings. We are responsible for taking care of what God has given us. Thanks again! ~Tamra

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  49. Here's a thought. If bikinis, and midriffs, short skirts/shorts aren't an issue in modesty, then why have they only been around for a short period of time? Were all the men from Adam until the "sexual revolution" hungry perverted animals and just now have (or should have) the capacity to control themselves? Quit thinking about what you think is fair or not, and listen to Scripture. Just like you can't change what God said to make yourself feel better regarding other things, you can't do it here. If you've got to put the blame on someone else, you're probably doing something you shouldn't.

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    1. You should go look at the history of clothing and fashion before you assume that the entire world dressed by late Victorian era standards until the 20th Century. Not even close to the truth. Queen Victoria herself had an extremely low cut wedding gown and check out the cleavage on her daughter Beatrice's wedding gown in 1885: http://0.tqn.com/d/womenshistory/1/0/a/n/2/1885-Princess-Beatrice-3294628.jpg

      And never mind non-Western cultures in hot climates where clothing was sometimes altogether optional...

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    2. And those naked cultures weren't Christian either, so I don't think we want to hold them up as an example to follow.

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    3. I know for a fact that many indigenous people in the Amazons who are Christians still go nude. Why judge them when their concept of modesty is different?

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  50. We also teach our sons to keep their flesh covered as well so they do not tempt women. I know that usually the focus is on the girls staying modest. But we chose to teach both our sons and daughters to keep covered so no one is tempted. This is how both my husband and I were raised.

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  51. But were not Adam and Eve born naked? Are not we all? I'm not implying naked is the way to go...but I think much is to be said for personal responsibility. After all...Jesus spent most of his time NOT with the pure..but with thieves and prostitutes.

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    1. The moment that Adam and Eve ate of the fruit they became aware of right and wrong. They quickly realized that being naked was wrong and sought to clothe themselves. Shortly after this God made clothes for them.

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    2. We all know they and all of us are born naked. But then they chose to disobey God and they felt shame. Can you imagine the flood of impure thoughts pouring in like a raging flood? All their innocence lost in that moment? Remember, they were perfect. They weren't born into sin like the rest of us. Suddenly, satan had the control because they handed it to him. They now had knowledge of good and evil. Satan had to have had a field day with all the nasty things he whispered into their ears in those moments, let alone how he beat them up for disobeying God.

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    3. Not that it alters the argument---um, discussion---but if scripture is used for one or the other side of this discussion, please get it straight.
      Neither Adam nor Eve were born. They were created. And I doubt if being naked in that innocent state they were in before The Fall was wrong and that is why they were ashamed. And I throw out a great caution in speculating about what Adam or Eve thought, felt or what Satan "...had to have ...whispered into their ears..." God cautions us to not add or take away anything from scripture. We only know what is written and that, not very clearly at times because of the Fall.
      For my part----I am greatly grieved at the spewing forth of hurtful words to make a point. Ladies---please read the Word asking that God give you wisdom in this and in dealing with something about which you so obviously disagree. I believe the intent of the author of this was to encourage, not to cause strife. She did not cause it-----she did not MAKE anyone say what some did. We probably all agree that modesty is a good thing. Make sure your definition of it aligns with God's. Be kind.......

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  52. As a mom of two boys I loved this piece. It is everywhere!

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  53. we women need to take resposibility for the image we put out to society. This is no way excuses rape, etc. however, we do play a part in how we are respected in society. We cannot expect to be treated like a lady when our breasts and rear our poking out of our clothes.

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  54. Thank you for your thoughtful post Lisa, and for the way you are intentionally guiding your son to guard his purity. It is greatly needed in this culture, and something we are striving to do with our son who is 12. Historically, the more a nation strays from God and the sound teaching of the Bible, the more acceptable public nakedness becomes. I think the current standards of dress both inside and outside the church speak to our nations spiritual condition. The fact that undergarments like camisoles and sports bras have now become acceptable 'clothing' in our culture is sad, but not surprising in the least. For a believer, modesty is the outward expression of a heart delighting in obedience to God - putting the needs of others before our own liberty is not burdensome, but an act of lovingkindness.

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  55. Thank you for this article. I read through the comments and noticed that they all seem to be from women. My wife sent me this today and I was so pleased to read it. I understand the frustration that comes from the women who have commented in a negative way but I just want to assure you from the male perspective that the author is spot on. You wont have to teach your young boys to find women as sexual objects, and frankly you wont be able to fully. You might succeed in teaching them to be respectful and hide their feelings but I assure you that a combination of our over saturated culture mixed with God's design for a man to find a woman attractive will make sure that bare skin particularly from the knee to the chest will cause him to sin often. We are Christians and we are to not be part of the world that we live in. I know it seems like a tank top and short shorts are appropriate summer attire but trust me when I say that the body of a young woman in tight shorts and a tank top sweating on a hot day is enough to cause any man an issue. I watched porn from the time I was 9 until I was 23 and in my 3rd year of marriage. I have since learned to avert my eyes from the things that cause me to sin. Sadly in this world I will likely never find that I do not have to guard my mind on a daily basis. But just as Christian men need to rise above the non-believing men around them and avert their eyes and learn to respect women, Christian women need to rise above the worldly women who have set the tone for what is appropriate and dress modestly. If the secular world decides that bikinis are the norm and perfectly appropriate to wear everywhere for every occasion are you going to wear them simply because society says it's ok? Fred Stoker has written an entire series of books, Every man's Battle, that teach men and boys how to handle these situations. I cant speak for the idea of raising your boys with the idea that women's bodies are not sexual but I can say from experience and my own Biblical study that I don't think it will work. Trust me, my mother didn't know that I watched porn and lusted over every woman I saw exposing skin either. It was a total shock when my marriage almost fell apart because I could not keep myself pure for my wife. I know run a blog, http://thefightforpurityblog.blogspot.com/ where I write about many facets of Christian life but largely about these kinds of issues. For the Christian women who believe it is ok to dress immodestly in front of men, know that I have personally spend time on the floor in tears crying to God for a break from the pressures that are put on a man's mind. There are a lot of things that a man needs to know to Guard his own mind and while I highly doubt that society will ever remove the stumbling block from men's minds I would certainly hope that my sister's in Christ would make the effort to encourage their brothers. There is a growing number of people in the Church who are finally waking up to this issue and it is very encouraging to read of someone who is trying to teach the purity that God wants for all of us. But we must remember that if we model our attitudes after those of the secular society then there is a good chance we are looking to the wrong source for our morality.

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  56. Thank you so much!

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  57. When she was in high school, our oldest daughter wanted to wear "hot pants" (very short shorts) to school. Rather than giving her a lecture or an ultimatum, my husband sat her down and described how he felt as a teenage boy, trying to concentrate in class while his hormones were being stirred by the sight of girls in short skirts (keep in mind that he was a teenager in the '50s, when skirts were much longer!) After hearing this, my daughter made the decision to dress modestly.

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  58. http://thefightforpurityblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/on-modesty.html

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  59. Wow, I am surprised at some of these comments. We sure do set out to attack one another, don't we? Thank God for this thought provoking post and a family who wants to stay pure.

    We are Pentecostal. I choose not to wear form fitted clothing, always choosing skirts that cover my knees at all times, and shirts that show no cleavage. I also wear sleeves. I do this because when I worship, I don't want to be hindered by what I wear. I figure if its good enough for worship, its good enough for a picnic. I thank God for the Holy Spirit sending conviction to my heart and changing my view on what I wear.

    I have 2 young daughterS and a son. We often talk about dressing to the glory of God, not just for comfort. I know my heart hurts when my unsaved husband wears things I wish he wouldn't. Yes, shorts on my husband bothers me...when he sits, I can clearly see his thighs, you can't tell me the thighs aren't sexual. What would happen if a man-not your husband, put his hand on your bare thigh for any reason? I guarantee you'd throw a fit! And rightly so!! Cover up, ladies! Not all men are saved. Help your fellow sisters out. We May not retain our "sexiness" as we grow old, but we can definitely maintain our femininity.

    My prayer is that we would all become more aware of God pricking our heart's and be obedient. That we would cover up a little more so someonebelse might not stumble.

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  60. I may come across as old school, but my Dad always told me the more that you have covered as a female, the more there is left to a male's imagination. Take heart all you females, and be a doer of the Word, and dress modestly. You can do it, and believe it or not, your true beauty will shine through, and you can even like yourself, and the male's will definitely respect you.

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    1. But the message of that is that the so-called "modest" clothing is also intended to arouse men just by their "imagination" instead.

      How about we concede that most women choose clothing that is comfortable and makes them feel good about themselves and are not obligated to dress in a way that pleases or "protects" men?

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    2. Indeed Anon 11:11 AM.

      And this "leaving more to the male's imagination" still perpetuates the idea that it's okay, acceptable, expected for males to have imaginations prone to lust. Whereas a female better not have any "imagination" in that department whatsoever, or she's a harlot!

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  61. I am a mom to 6 children, 3 boys and 3 girls. 2 of my girls came to me at the late ages of 10 and 11 so we've had a lot of catching up to do as far as Biblical training goes. I was raised in a church where everyone dressed in a modest way, but now at age 43 I see those standards have lightened. The truth is (and here again everyone believes their own truth, their own interpretation) that there is no "modest for one but not another", there is no boys vs girls at fault. We are all accountable for what we say, what we do, how we dress, how we judge. We'll all stand in the same judgement spot in the end. I don't think tank tops are bad, they have their place, but I do think there are those that have more coverage than others (fuller tshirt at the top, ruffles in the front, etc) and therefore don't cause anyone to take a second glance. Whether it's boy/girl in trying on jeans at a store, when you turn to see your butt, you're wondering how others will perceive your butt in those jeans. The majority of the time one isn't turning to see if they fit well, one is turning to see how they look.
    Just last night I saw this video on Facebook. I learned a few things. Very appropriate to share here. http://www.qideas.org/video/the-evolution-of-the-swimsuit.aspx She even comments down in the comment section.

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  62. Lisa,
    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for being obedient to God's unchanging Word, and having respect for our husbands and sons. The truth is not spoken like this enough. I plan on sending this to my son to encourage him-he is not alone!
    Keep up your writing, don't get discouraged by the static:).
    Praying for your ministry,
    TaraD

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  63. Thank you for this wonderful post! I am, however, extremely disappointed in the negative response it's received. This just proves that Satan is working in this area of Christian lives and it'a all the more reason to be brave in confronting the modesty issue.

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  64. They're the ones objectifying woman and teaching they're sons that a woman's body is an immoral thing.. I mean do their sons look down when there's a guy working on his house with his shirt off? Or at the pool in swimming trunks? Sometimes modesty isn't about the fact that you have cleavage showing its about not trying to make yourself appear more than others. These people make me sad because they aren't raising good men, they're raising messed up men.

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    1. I agree. This is culture that promotes feelings of shame.

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    2. Not sure what article you read. A woman's body as an immoral thing? Seriously? If you believe the teachings of the New Testament, you, as a women, are told to dress modestly. Period. But, men don't get a pass at the pool party. A man's upper body is not inherently sexual but breasts and genitals are. If a guy is showing his rigging through his swimming trunks, it's immodest, I'm sure you'll agree.

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  65. Such a powerful message. I have 3 boys that are 5,3,and 2. My oldest is already asking why other woman wear this or that,but I don't wear it. It's a crying shame. I try to be careful even at home about what I wear. In the mornings I wear a robe when I still have my night gown on. I hate having to take them to stores that promote those ads even if some aren't as worse as others. Thank you for speaking up on this issue.

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  66. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Romans 14:21 - It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

      I doubt Paul would have said "Well, anything except dressing in skimpy clothes. That's totally cool. Men just need to keep their minds on God."

      Yes, when a man lusts it is his sin. Also, when a woman dresses in tiny clothes she is not taking care to love her brother as she should. When you use the Bible to make an argument, take the whole counsel of Scripture into consideration, not just what makes your point.

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    2. The Bible does tell women to dress modestly.

      "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;" (1 Timothy 2:9)

      It also says this:
      " ...that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." (Romans 14:13)

      You don't think that a woman dressing in a bikini(read:glorified lingerie) is going to tempt men to sin?

      I'm not saying they aren't accountable for their own thoughts/actions. I'm just saying that women aren't helping the matter by adding fuel to the fire.

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  67. Great thoughts! Thanks for sharing. :)

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  68. This is the second piece I have read in as many weeks that, to me, gives the impression that men should not be held accountable for their sins as long as they're "trying to live pure lives", and that it's a woman's fault if a man is tempted. I disagree wholeheartedly. If a man tells a lie, ANY kind of lie (which is forbidden in the Ten Commandments), who is responsible for telling the lie? The man. If he judges a woman for what she wears or judges anyone for that matter (which is also frowned upon in the Bible), who is responsible? The other person for doing something to encourage the judgment, or the man who judged of his own free will? There must be a different way to approach the issues of modesty and temptation, because blaming women for how men act is downright archaic. The human body is one of God's most beautiful creations and should be celebrated as such, instead of being viewed as merely a vessel of temptation.

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    1. I agree. Claiming that the way a woman dresses is causing a man to think sinfully is only a few steps away from saying she caused him to rape her with her "provocative" dress.

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    2. Not sure where you got the idea of judging women from the article? Bit of a logical leap onto a soap box. As to the human body being great, can't argue with you there! Song of Songs is, after all, in the Bible. Along with enjoying the human body, we'll need to make sure we don't have the spirit of Cain (I'll approach God my own way) and enjoy the human body in the way specified in Scripture: Let the marriage bed be undefiled.

      As to the main point of the article (women dressing modestly, expressly taught in Scripture) if you have an issue with that, your argument is with God, not the author of the article.

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  69. Wow... as a 15 year old girl who tries very hard to dress modestly, this post really made an impact on me. It's nice to see that my struggles (and those of all my fellow modest-dressers) are paying off, whether we know it or not. It also really touched me to see that there still are young men out there who are struggling in this crazy world, to keep their eyes from evil. It is those men that understand that all of the distracting nonsense these days is not good for them. They truly respect women and girls, which is sadly lacking in many boys of today's society. To the parents who are teaching their boys such principles of purity... "Thank you!"

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    1. Hey Anna! :) So refreshing to hear this! :) My mom wrote this article for girls just like you... striving after God and His standards! I so agree with you on the "they (young men) who avert their eyes are truly respecting women!" One of my favorite comments! :) Thanks so much for taking a stand! :) It's girls like you who will find a Godly man to be your husband! :) God Bless you! :)

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  70. Thank you for writing this Lisa! We teach our son the same thing...just like we would teach him to stay away from other temptation...the Bible says to "Flee fornication.." and letting your eyes feast on immodest women is not fleeing temptation. This is a great reminder to get the word out to other women about how immodestly they dress--even Christian leaders. If we wear something to be provocative to our hubby's, should we wear something like that in public? I see women dressed in dresses that look exactly like my chemise I wear for my husband. It is a sad day where women think they have to show some skin to be considered lovely. Thank you for reminding us of how we can cause a brother to stumble, or even just not have a fun summer day! Keep up the good work!

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  71. I read this against my better judgment and I'm furious. I have said for years that boys in conservative Christian homes are conditioned to struggle with "modesty" and every-day normal things regarding female bodies. This article is the perfect example of that. And you are lauding this as a good thing!!!! This poor boy, and every boy like him....their parents have set them up for a lifetime of failure and shame. Then they have the audacity to blame all the women in the world for their terrible parenting. I'm just so....angry at this type of spiritual abuse and bondage! Using God's name in this way is horrible.

    I've written about how modesty teachings enslave women, well this is the perfect example of how they enslave men too. The first few sentences infuriate me. They CREATED their son's struggles! They said "Avert your eyes, Son. His dad started saying it to him from the youngest age - when he was only a little boy. Might have been an alluring commercial while watching the ballgame. Or a billboard while driving down the highway. A pop-up on the computer screen. As parents, we had purposed to teach him purity from the beginning." They conditioned and brain-washed him to think there was something wrong with seeing females in clothing they didn't approve of. That looking at a woman is somehow shameful. They DID THAT TO THEIR SON. They didn't teach him "purity", they taught him shame and objectification of women. They should be ashamed of themselves. They have set their son up for failure, and now he is going to be under such shame his entire life for things that are not shameful. He's going to struggle with "sins" that aren't sins but that he's been brainwashed to think are "impurity". This poor boy!!! :( I cannot imagine doing anything that unhealthy to my sons. I really hope that boy can get help and counseling from people that aren't as toxic as his parents. This has nothing to do with honoring God. This is putting people under bondage that God never intended. And before you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about....think again. I was raised in the conservative homeschool community. I've seen this scenario play out with literally hundreds of men. Mothers and fathers, please, don't raise your sons like this.

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    1. Dear Ms. Darcy,

      I am actually the sister of the young man in question (aka. the subject of the article), so I believe I am somewhat qualified to speak on the subject. With the greatest respect, I must believe that you have completely misunderstood the purpose and message behind this article.

      If you believe that my brother looks away from women ashamed if he finds a certain one attractive you are as far from the truth as possible. I know for a fact that my brother is perfectly fine interacting with young women his age, and is not ashamed if interacting with one who is scantily clothed.

      You seem to have taken the first two sentences and disregarded the rest of the article. Every man (young or old) I know has or will at some point struggle with this aspect of immodesty in women.

      Rather than create my brothers natural manly struggles, they have helped him avert his eyes and save him physically and mentally for his future wife.

      My brother has not been set up for failure, in fact, attending an elite college on the east coast is not what I would call failure (With plenty of attractive women attending and friends with him)

      And to address one of your points... there is something wrong with purposefully looking a woman who is indecently or not dressed at all. At very few points in life this cannot be avoided, but if it can, I pray that all young men (especially my future husband) avert their eyes if at all possible, because it is wrong.

      If you have finished reading this, thank you, and God bless you on your journey with Him... May He always be your guide.

      Vienna Jacobson

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    2. I couldn't agree more, Darcy. Well said.

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    3. Vienna - I respect you immensely for your words in conjunction with your mother's. I love the video that Jessica Rey posted on the evolution of the swimsuit (floating around youtube). In it she cites statistics that prove how women are actually turning themselves into objects by wearing skimpy outfits...and that women who dress modestly are actually seen as "people" in men's minds - this study was done at a popular American university - it's not just a "Christian" study. Men are wired to think a certain way...women are not wired to dress a certain way. I love the fact that because I dressed modestly I created a mystique for my husband that only he gets to enjoy. He doesn't have to worry about sharing me with any other guy out there. And dressing modestly does not mean we have to sacrifice class or fashion.
      Your mom's blog has been a great encouragement to me and I pray that the rest of your brothers grow up the same way. I know I want my son to have the same respectful attitude toward women. Teach men that women are to be protected...

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    4. Darcy, I understand what you mean by this. But I firmly believe that this is the only way this can really be handled. I know that you see this as teaching them to be ashamed but it is not. It is teaching them to realize that they live in a fallen world and that a man should control himself and this includes turning his eyes away from sin. If you believe this teaching to be so toxic then I ask what you will think when you observe your son intently watching a Victoria's Secret ad. No matter how hard you try to train a son to believe the female body is not attractive you will be battling against a God who made the body attractive to men and a society that perverts that natural attraction at every turn.

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    5. Right on Darcy.

      If you make a big deal out of toes, or elbows, or hair, and teach boys they are taboo, then those boys will sexualize toes, or elbows, or hair. (The Islamic nations are a perfect example of this kind of thwarted teaching.) By over dramatizing and teaching this poor boy that the female body is a thing of evil and temptation, he is going to struggle not to sexualize everything about it when most men can see a woman in a tank top and think nothing of it.

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  72. Excellent, excellent, excellent article. The criticism you're getting is because you are spot-on. The Enemy hates that. Thanks for being brave enough to speak truth.

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  73. A shoulder is NOT a sexual part of a woman's body. Neither is a thigh. Or a knee. Or an elbow. Not even a collarbone. A woman is MORE than the sum of her parts. If a girl is playing soccer in shorts and a tank top in the middle of summer, it is NOT HER FAULT if a boy has been taught to only think of her in one way. It's unintentional, but that's EXACTLY what you're teaching him.

    Your intentions are good, and I know you believe you're teaching him to respect women. But what you're really teaching him is that a woman's body, sorry, each PART of her body, is only meant for sex. Dirty, tempting, sinful. That is how he will always view her, and throwing on a t-shirt will NOT stop him from viewing her that way. He knows whats under there.

    Then we wonder why women in this culture grow up feeling ashamed of their bodies? Because they're not taught that their bodies are strong and beautiful and capable of getting things done. No, they are taught that they were created for one reason and one reason only. Sex. And if they so much as flash a knee, they're going to hell.

    Want to teach your son how to really respect and honour women? Want to teach him to treat women how the want and deserve to be treated? Teach him to look her in the eyes instead of at the ground.

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    1. I know there is a strong temptation in our world to talk about whats "fair". To say that it's not her fault that he lusted. But what is fair is irrelevant in Gods eyes. Grace is not "fair", none of us our saved because we deserve it. A young woman can be taught that her body is strong and still be told that she is a jewel who should not desire for men to lust after her. Rather than worrying about her rights and what is fair she could instead be concerned with being holy and promoting righteousness in her Christian brothers.

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    2. It's not about blaming anyone. It's about what the Bible has to say to women and how they dress: modestly or immodestly. Not exactly rocket science. If you don't accept the Bible, then blow it off. For those who do, better seek God in living out the principle of modest dress.

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    3. It seems to me that verse about women dressing modestly refers more to excessive ornamentation and flashy jewelry and showing off of wealth and such. Anyone else think that?

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  74. "If she only knew that the way she dressed up meant a good man needed to look down. "

    To say that the way women dress has no effect on men is naive and foolish. It denies the basic facts about how men are wired. Thank you for speaking the truth winsomely and respectfully. I only wish some of those making comments could be as classy.

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  75. This is the most creepiest post I have ever read. I though this was some sort of spoof. But, I guess this is actually real, especially after the comments (sounds very rapey). What is wrong with all of you? Our culture has made a fetish of everything, especially women - breasts, legs, thighs. Don't blame the media for the way boys perceive women. Teach your boys/girls to respect each others bodies. Women bodies don't objectify women, but the men who view them as fetish objects objectify them. In addition, you should not care if a woman is buck naked. If you can't control yourselves, that is your fault.

    Women, wear what you want.

    The Taliban is missing a whole bunch of their morality and virtue police. Let us get these women iyou wantn a burqa, keep them in their homes, treat them like cattle.

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    1. I agree, and your post brings up the issue of what is culturally appropriate. In Middle Eastern countries, the ankle, for example, might be thought of as a provocative body part; in African cultures, breasts are not sexualized.

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    2. You might have considered that this is a post for Christian women who desire to do what the Bible says - understandably seen as odd by those who don't value it.

      Personally, I'd love my daughters to marry young men who saved themselves (on the inside and the outside - mind and body) for them.

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    3. To be a Christian is to dress in a way that brings glory to Christ... not yourself. The Bible tells women to dress modestly. If they don't, they are sinning. It's that simple.

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  76. What an un-God like way to raise a child. These are Gods children and yet you sit in judgement when one does not dress as you would like. I should have averted my eyes and not read this blog/post, as I have such sadness in my heart for all the children that are taught this way.

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    1. There are many people who are sad when children are taught the principles in the Bible: Flee youthful lusts, give no opportunity to the flesh, yield not to temptation. God's children are called to live according to the teachings in God's Word, a problem for many.

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  77. I'm afraid I simply do not understand the need to make your son continually look away. There are certain things he will see in his life. he will need to be accustomed to that. Stores like Target sell lingerie. He will need to deal with that. After all, I taught my daughters to not get all excited when they saw boys underwear. I also taught my children, both my son and my daughter, to respect those of the opposite sex as well as those of the same sex. We taught them their bodies were beautiful just the way God made them. Then we tried to teach them appropriate ways to dress. You dress differently at the beach than you do if you are going to a job interview.

    I also believe it is just wrong to sexualize the body of a young child. For a small girl to wear short dresses or shorts and tank tops is not inappropriate. Their bodies are pure.

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    1. You may have missed the point. As I understand the post, it wasn't that the boy was taught to constantly look away but, when sexually provocative images were assaulting him, to avert his eyes (like a drive by the local porn shop, for instance). What was recorded was a young boy's attempt at applying the principle - and, that's the issue: Applying a principle, not dictating a law. And let's keep in mind, this wasn't a definitive post about teaching young men how to navigate a world designed to take them down, sexually, but to encourage women to embrace a teaching directed (by the Holy Spirit, Scripture is God Breathed) to women about how they should dress.

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  78. I'm sorry that so many women are making this post about women's rights. We do have rights, but shouldn't we use them the right way...

    "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another." (Galations 5:13)

    There is so much sex in the media it is no wonder why boys think about girls in the objectifying ways that they do. It is NOT all there fault. If women respected God they would dress in a way to please Him. It is a sign of submission. I'm not saying to dress head to toe. I wear skirts to the knee and non-cleavage showing tops. It's not stuffy, uncool, uncomfortable, OR immodest.

    I don't understand why everyone is getting so defensive.

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  79. I find it funny that there are a lot of woman saying "ahh your taking us back to the dark ages". Do they not see that they are degrading themselves? The idea that we should be able to be half naked or wear revealing clothes and MEN are the ones that need to watch themselves (which is still true), is silly. I saw one woman say "even I look when a woman is dressed inappropriate". It's true so do I, and it makes me VERY angry especially when I am with my husband, whom I see noticing her too. Luckily he normally looks at me and kisses me and proceeds to tell me how much he loves me. ANYWAYS, if you can't dress modestly for men, at least do it for your fellow (married) woman.

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  80. Have not read any comments from men so I hope you ladies don't mind me speaking up. Three thoughts came to mind while reading this article:
    1)Charm is deceptive and beauty fleeting but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
    2)Self-control is needed by both sexes here. I teach my 6-year old son (who already know what immodesty is) to look at the eyes. That women are Gods creation and some of them sisters for all of eternity.
    3)The women who have to show skin to feel good about themselves are gonna find a man who wants to satisfy himself first. Do you really want to be married to a man like that? Make a man need to find your heart not your skin.

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    1. As a woman who met/dated her husband at a young age when I was a little naive about all of this, I have to say that your #3 is spot on.

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  81. For those of you commenting on just the way women dress.... how about the way men dress... do they not put out the same message when they go around shirtless etc to tempt women to see their bodies... it's a two way street and personally it's all in how the Holy Spirit leads you as a Christian if you are one. It would be nice if the whole world was nice enough to consider each other's feelings on all this but Satan has people blinded... Just keep praying for our world!!!! and teach your kids the right way to dress so they aren't temptations please?

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    1. Dear Anonymous,

      For those who accept the Bible as authoritative, nudity and modesty are somewhat less than synonymous.

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  82. Thanks for the wisdom within this post. I am raising my boys the same way<3

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  83. I think that there is a cultural aspect to this that is being overlooked. I was raised in a Christian home and I am a practicing Christian today, as well as a wife, mother, and university professor. My husband and sons are Christians. However, I am from a part of the world where we think nothing of going without clothing on the beach. We also spend time at resorts and camping places where clothing isn't required. It is not immodest to be nude or partially nude. Our bodies are God's creation and I am nonplussed to see how Americans sexualise nudity. I don't believe in sexual objectification or degradation of sex or women, but it seems that in putting such emphasis on your concept of modesty does just that. My boys are not sexually active, and a nude girl can walk by them on the beach and they don't even notice. For us, it is behavior that is modest or immodest, not clothing.

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    1. I agree. This blog post is very ethnocentric.

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  84. Hi Lisa!
    I always love your posts, and they always make me stop and think. This post made me think a lot, and I would love to talk about some of the thoughts I had.

    I'd love to tell you a story.

    I know a woman, let's call her Kimmy.

    At the age of 13, she was forcefully introduced to the world of having a woman's body when, while walking down the street, a car crept up next to her, full of leering men.
    "Hey baby, why don't you hop in the car! Aren't you a sexy little thing!". They then sped away, laughing. Kimmy, dressed in long jeans and a sweater, felt violated and scared. Sexy? She had just stopped playing with dolls the year before.

    After this, she noticed how men looked at her blooming body. It didn't matter how she was dressed, if she had makeup or jewelry on, or what time of day it was. Walking home from school, men would look her up and down. At the church pool party, wearing a modest one-piece, she could feel the burning gaze of teenage boys on her thighs.

    And she began to feel confused. Her youth pastor would tell her that a one piece bathing suit was acceptable. But then shorts that came even a smidge above her fingertips was not. But one showed her entire legs, and the other was far more modest! A strap that was 2 inches wide was acceptable, but a one inch strap was a temptation. Was that small sliver of shoulder sexual? The rules were cloudy, strange, and always for the benefit of men.

    At 16, Kimmy, dressed in a modest skirt and a crew neck tshirt, is at a get-together at her friends house. There are some boys there, one of who she has known for a while, and has had a little crush on. He corners her near the back bathroom. He flirts with her, and she, shy, tries to move away. He pins her to the wall, and gropes her roughly. He tells her she knows she wants it. Her innocent crush is shattered, and instead she is violated and hurt.

    She, shaking, approaches her youth pastor. It takes all her courage to tell him what happened. "I have to ask you, Kimmy." He says. "Were you leading him on in any way? How were you dressed? " Kimmy feels violated again. She is realizing that she can't win. The blame is always resting squarely on her shoulders.

    She begins to see her body as ugly, nothing but a sexual temptation for those around her. She is always judged by her body. Not her brains. Not her sparkling and lovely personality. It hurts the most when she is at the church picnic on a blazing hot day, and she is in a camisole. She can feel the dissaproving stares of the older women in the church, and the sexual stares from men. At this point, though, she stops caring. Because it doesn't matter. If she was wearing a burka, men would still see her as sexual, and she would somehow be doing something wrong that would be causing them to stumble.

    And she becomes angry. Bitter. It's not fair. Why aren't men held accountable for the way they see women? Why is it that men aren't taught that women are people to be seen for their brains and thoughts and spirit, not their bodies? Why don't they give lectures to men at church about looking into a woman's eyes, not her breasts? Why is it that the teenage boys at church are told to look away from a woman when they feel temptation, instead of wrestling with the fact that they need to stop sexualizing women in the first place? Why are men's private thoughts her responsibility? Why is it that a cute guy with his shirt off is fine, but showing a sliver of her shoulder is a sin? They set up a system where she can never win, and it is always her fault.

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  85. (part 2)
    Now, you can read this and say, "hey not fair, that's an anecdote." But you know what? I was a church counselor for 10 years. And in that time, I saw nearly 200 Kimmys. Women who carried this burden, and it has scarred them, angered them, and created a rift between them and the church. We HAVE to stop this notion that women are responsible for men's thoughts and actions. We HAVE to take a step back, as a church and a nation, and realize that we are setting up a system where girls lose over and over again. We HAVE to make men accountable for sexualizing girls and women, and teach them proper intimacy in the confines of a meaningful relationship.

    I appreciate your heart, Lisa, and I love how much thought and care you put into every post. And I will assume you will read my response, and disagree. But as someone who has long worked with teenage and adult christian women, please give this matter some thought. I think instead of blaming women, we need to empower them. We need to tell them to dress in a way that respects their OWN spirits and minds. NOT for the needs and sins of men, but because she respects herself and God and her life.

    Thanks so much.
    -Amy

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    1. Amy C - this is a fantastic post. Clear and very powerful. I couldn't agree more.

      http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-modesty-teachings-hurt-men-too.html

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  86. Wow, girls and ladies, this is pretty simple. Don't have your boobs and butts on display. You might actually feel better about yourselves for it and it could make a huge difference in your life.

    Misty

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  87. Wait--men can't control their lustful desires but they are supposed to be lead the family? Me thinks they need to get a grip on themselves before they start trying to tell anyone else how to be holy.

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  88. Here's a great response to this post...I agree with modesty and teaching our children what it means (not covering our shameful bodies but rather revealing our dignity) - but over sexualizing the thoughts of a young boy is NOT modesty or purity.

    http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-modesty-teachings-hurt-men-too.html

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  89. Lisa, thank you for a great and thoughtful post. Please tell your son that his level of self-control is a witness for men, young and old, to model. It saddens me that we've become so "all about me" that we take it as an affront when someone lovingly reminds us of something that we could do that is so little, but could help another person. I used to think we could/should probably be able to figure out what "modesty" meant without too much trouble. Unfortunately, I've realized that because we've abdicated so much of our power to advertising (movies, music, tv, billboards, magazines, etc.), there are even adults who are unable to recognize what helps promote the notion of purity in thoughts and deeds. On my last trip to Blank Retailer, I found myself wondering why my 8 year old daughter's clothing would be found right alongside push-up bras for tweens. Can someone tell me with sincerity when bra straps became an accessory for your outfit? We have stopped modeling Christian behavior, which includes how we present our physical selves, for our sons and daughters. Sons aren't being taught to look away and daughters aren't being taught to dress in a way that keeps the line between pretty versus sexy clear. It's no wonder that our sons and daughters are "confused" about where and how they should look. We could all spend more time praising the young men who avert their eyes and complimenting the young women who look great and are appropriately dressed. In the meantime, if you're already raising the perfect family, God bless you--and if you're open to being convicted by Lisa's words, it's food for thought.

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  90. I don't know what churches you commenters are attending, but I have heard many sermons about how men need to respect women, and there are many, many men's accountability groups and classes and retreats on this very subject. I find it refreshing to hear a boy's perspective on how ladies can help him in his struggle against sin by simple choices in clothing. It is ridiculous to expect a teenage boy with raging hormones to not notice a girl who has spent hours making herself look sexy. I see them, every Sunday in my conservative church. My son sees them. My husband sees them. It's just common courtesy to consider the needs of your brothers in Christ. Just as you would not offer a diabetic person a huge slice of frosted brownie, you would not spike the punch at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, and you should not tempt men who are created with sexual appetites which have been strengthened by sin and culture. In short, be kind to each other!

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  91. Thank you for this article. As a mother of a 16 year old son and a 14 year old daughter, I can relate. I've seen my son nervously look down or shield his eyes while trying not to be noticed. I admire his commitment to his future spouse and will one day let her know how commited he is. He is aware that lustful thoughts now are adultry against his future wife. Whoever she is will be truly blessed. I still feel bad for his struggle. It makes me angry the way girls objectify themselves and tarnish the image of women everywhere. My daughter is constantly seeing conflicting views of what true beauty is. Immodesty is so ugly... no matter who is wearing it. The Bible says to fight against evil, but to flee from lust. It's not weakness to shield his eyes, it's Biblical. King David, Solomon, and Samson fell into sexual sin and my son is NOT stronger, wiser, or more spiritual than these men.

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  92. Thank you for this article. God bless you.

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  93. An excellent piece you have here, thank-you for it. I am so very glad to see modesty being addressed more and more lately. I do see it being a controversial topic but I believe this do to conviction. The Lords Word is sharp like a double edged sword. I see where some say teach men not to sexualizing a womens body and I agree, however with that said it does not get a girl or women out of dressing modestly. We are women so this is our part to address, we can only control ourselves. Thank-you again for your well written and convicting article. It is very appreciated.

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  94. On a second point I do want to also thank-you for a great point which is the kind of man we are trying to attract. I find this true all around me. That if we are modest along with following God's Word on a womens call, we will in turn attract the right man whom may overlook us if we are dressing scantly. I believe we deeply need to teach this to our daughters as much as we need to teach our sons to respect women.

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  95. The bondage this teaching does to both men & women... All I can do is shake my head & be thankful to be married to a christian man who wasn't programmed like this poor boy.

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  96. Applause, Lisa. Men are just wired differently than women and to deny that is foolish. I understand that those who do not believe in God's Word will find this hard to comprehend but for those who do believe, we see that you are doing what you feel is best to protect your son from images that will never leave his mind.

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  97. As this is an article written by a Christian woman to Christian women, wouldn't it be great if we could focus our comments and thoughts on what God teaches about the issue? As several thoughtful comments noted: young men (as well as young ladies) must "flee youthful lusts" and it seems like a practical way to teach this is for the eyes to be averted (to the ground or to the eyes).

    As for what to wear? God's Word gives a basic guideline for women that is both practical and symbolic. As Christian women, we are to exhibit our submission to Christ by being covered. The Greek words in the Timothy passage that references "modest apparel" refer to a flowing cloak-like garment, consistent with what you would see any moral, decent woman throughout the ages and in most cultures wearing (not to say that there were not aberrations to this, but where there were, it would be very unlikely to find any Christian influence present).

    The changes we have seen in a lady's attire have not come about through serious Bible study, but have instead come from those in society who wished to change the woman's role and subvert the call to holiness and obedience found in the Bible.

    Why then are so many Christian woman also following these societal trends? I suppose there are only two real possibilities: ignorance of what the Scripture teaches or rebellion against the symbolism God has given to our role as women (in attitude, action, and yes, even in our clothing).

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  98. I don't know anyone that struggles on the level your son is....unless their parents or someone else created that struggle in them. This post is pure nonsense and because you have chosen to give him so much difficulty in living in society, the poor boy can't even function in a normal venue. That is truly sad and has not taught him "pure" living....it has taught him to struggle where there never should have been a need to struggle. So sad.

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  99. God bless your son. I pray my daughters find a man like him

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  100. Wow, so there won't be any trips to the beach or a pool for life? No thanks. We have effectively parented two children, in part by not making a big deal out of things that aren't a big deal. If I commanded my kids to stay out of my forbidden cabinet of mystery and wonder, I can assure you that all they will want to know is what is inside. Or I could just teach them about privacy. You are choosing the former, I am choosing the latter. That isn't to say we don't have limits, but wringing your hands over summer clothes at a camp is silly.

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  101. Have you taught your son to avert his eyes from men with bare chests and rock hard abs? Because if he's gay, that's going to make him lust.

    If all women dressed in burlap sacks, men would still think about sex. If all men dressed in burlap sacks, women would still think about sex. Thinking about sex and wanting sex are perfectly normal.

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  102. I have been thinking about this post all day(which as a writer is a good thing, so I hope that encourages you!
    I agree with you that we should be teaching modesty, on both sides, and teaching our sons to be aware of potential situations that might cause them to stumble. I agree we should teach our daughters to be wise and choose to love others in how we do or don't dress. I agree that we should teach all our kids to see loved children of God first, bodies second.
    But my question is- could your son be approached by a prostitute? Could he share the gospel with her or would he be unable to because he couldn't look at her? Could your son hang out with "tax collectors" who dress immodestly to be a light, or would he have to avert his eyes and avoid them? Because I am pretty sure Jesus didn't ask the woman at the well to cover up before he looked right at her and loved her. He LOVED her. He addressed her behavior, sure...but He addressed her heart first. He knew that by addressing her heart, her behavior would follow, and I think that probably included how she dressed.
    I have a close family member who is a stripper. I don't mean that metaphorically, I mean she's an actual stripper. And when she isn't working, she dresses...like a stripper. And while you might look at her short skirt and tight low cut shirt and form an opinion about her and her spiritual health, know that shes also looking at you and making an opinion about what kind of person YOU are. So we shouldn't purposefully dress immodestly to hurt our Christian brothers, but I don't want to purposefully dress in a way that causes HER pain or drives her from Christ either. That means that when I see her, I don't wear my best church clothes. It means I tell her she is beautiful. It means I skip over the fact that I can see cleavage and ask her about how her day has been. It means that when she cries over how men treat her, I don't tell her it's because she dresses like a stripper, I tell her about the One who loves her beyond anything. If she ever accepts that love, I believe her dress will change...out of a reflection of that love. But if it never changes, if she remains the woman at the well forever, her value and worth has not changed. It means I teach my sons to look her in the eye and get to know her. It means I hang out with her stripper friends (and laugh when they tell me I have a job waiting if I ever want it). I never will tell her that the life she has is what He intends for her...but if I am the only face of Jesus she has, I HAVE to start with something more significant than the silly clothes she wears.

    I don't aim for my sons to go hang out with strippers. But I want to know they could share the gospel, in speech and in action, with some.

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  103. I clicked forward to this blog from an Australian news site, mostly because I am always interested (bemused?)to read articles like this from the US. I was raised in a strong Christian family, with great values etc. etc. Reading these comments simply reinforces why 'Christianity' (in fact all theistic religions) can't offer meaningful answers.

    You write that women should be modest in their attire, but the focus of this modesty isn't about their own self worth - it is instead about 'helping men avoid lust'. What about teaching women about valuing themselves, and that it doesn't matter what shape or size you are, or how you dress, or what you believe or don't believe, that gives you value as a human being?

    How about teaching young men (who, in the US, commit a staggering number of sexual assaults) about how to value women as equals? When you write that your son can't 'enjoy her loveliness' because she's dressed 'inappropriately' do you think perhaps that this undermines how he values her?

    Disappointed this made it all the way to Oz as a 'news story'. In other news, the anti-abortion bill in Texas didn't get up (thanks to a fabulous filibuster attempt) - so maybe the US will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century after all...

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    1. I just want to encourage you in your writing of this article! Bravo! We should be concerned about modesty for many reasons - for respect towards ourselves, our brothers in Christ, our families, God, etc... Modesty promotes freedom and respect. I congratulate your son too. He's trying to watch his gaze and respect women. Bravo! Don't be discouraged my negative comments.

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    2. The reason that this had to come from the USA is because no website or woman in Australia is an advocate for modest dressing. It does not exist in one church in Australia in a public format. Whilst we can always educate men not to look, the onus will always be there on women to cover up. We are our brothers keeper.

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    3. What a silly thing to say sabbathsermons.com....unless of course that is you have personally been to every single church in Australia?

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  104. OK, lets see.

    If you are temptation proof, then no harm is done with innocent skimpy attire (ie where there is no "intent")

    So it would follow that an "ugly" innocent girl could skip your advice?

    Oh I see, ** thats not what you meant **.

    /snark

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  105. More than 100 years ago the same woman who said so much on health that doctors now recognise today, said the same on modest dressing. Join the Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/ellenwhitedressreform/?fref=ts

    And read these sermons too:

    http://sabbathsermons.com/category/dress-reform/

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  106. This seems an awful lot like victim blaming to me. If a boy has unpure thoughts, shouldn't he be held responsible for the offense rather than the victim of his thoughts? If he were to inappropriately act on these thoughts, would that act be the female's fault as well? Where does responsibility come into play here for the males of our society? My daughter wearing a tank top and shorts is hardly immoral. She's not showing anything other parts than her shoulders, the flat part of her chest, her full arms, parts of her thighs, and the bottoms of her legs. She deserves to be comfortable in what she's wearing, and if a boy decides to make his thoughts unpure because he can't control the way HE sexualizes women, then that's hardly her fault. I'd argue he is, in fact, making her his victim, and suggesting she is at fault suggests that HE simply can't help the smut that runs through his mind. Are e to believe this? That males are simply too mentally challenged to be held responsible for their thoughts and actions, especially when concerning the female body?

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