My husband was the first to suspect something.
He had concerns about that new friend of mine. Concerns that I brushed off. I thought he was imagining things and told him not to worry.
Besides, my friend was going through a tough time and I felt I needed to be there for her. She had problems in her marriage and could use someone who would support her.
She needed a friend.
So I met her for coffee and we talked it all through. She poured out her troubles and I listened as a good friend does. I heard about how he lets her down and how he doesn't understand her. I sympathized as she told me about his failures as a husband and what a disappointment he was as a dad. Just terrible.
But she wasn't one to only talk about herself. She wanted to be there for me too. She was a bit worried about my marriage as well.
My marriage? I mean, not that we're perfect or anything. But I kinda like my husband.
Okay, I like him a lot.
Really? she pressed. It doesn't bother you that he talks to you that way? All that he puts on you? Her heart was "heavy" for the load I had to carry.
By my second cup of coffee, I was starting to feel sorry for me too. Of course, I didn't want to be taken for granted and now I wasn't so sure I was appreciated for all I do. So I left the cafe feeling troubled in my spirit, as though something wasn't quite right.
And you want to know something? It's because it wasn't right.
While my intent was to be a loving friend to her, this woman wasn't such a good friend to me. She didn't really want help for her marriage. She actually liked complaining about her husband---and, apparently, mine too.
It might have taken me longer than it should have, but what was happening eventually became clear. She was tearing down both her marriage and mine. Not okay.
So maybe my new friend needed someone and I'm sorry for what she's been through. But what I need is a friend who supports and encourages me in my marriage.
So if you want to go out for coffee together? I'd love it. But just so you know, here's the type of conversation I like to have:
- How I'm married to a rather good guy.
- How you can see ways in which I'm growing (and maybe a few more I could work on).
- How you've been praying that we would learn to love each other more fully.
- How you're cheering us both on.
- How you're excited to see what God is doing in our lives.
- How you're learning to love your husband even better.
- How you're determined to be the best wife you can be.
These are the kinds of things I want to talk about with my friends. And if you're struggling and hurting in your marriage? Quite honestly, my heart goes out to you and I really am a good listener. But let's talk about ways to build up our marriages rather than tearing them down. Let's look for things that will offer help and hope in our relationships. Let's see what we can do to strengthen your marriage - and my marriage - over a cup of coffee.
Because that's what real friends do.
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works. (Heb. 10:24)
In His grace,
Lisa is the happily-ever-after wife of Matthew L. Jacobson, literary agent and writer, and together they enjoy raising 8 children. Please join her over at Club31Women, a blog for any wife, mother, or sister who is looking for Biblical encouragement and inspiration.
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My friend and I have an agreement: we can complain to each other, but in the end, we always remind each other of the good points of our husbands. Staying together is the #1 goal and a friend should encourage it.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely! My mother does the same thing for me. Sometimes you need a sounding board, but ultimately marriage is for keeps. I would NEVER unhappiness or dissatisfaction in a marriage.
DeleteWhat a great article. It may make some feel uncomfortable but something that needs to be talked about--i know i needed to hear it. Ladies, I will tell you, I had a "best friend" that i poured my heart out too and she knew EVERYTHING about me, my marriage, etc and my husband kept saying "dont trust people like that Allison--not to that degree of trust" - i ignored him. Things went south her and I, and she smeared my personal business to everyone in my community. I have recently learned that the one person that is the most loyal and person that cares for me the most is my HUSBAND. He has been there for me through everything--friends are great but i know when it comes down to it for must of us, a friend likely wont put you before herself, or pay your bills, help take care of your children, etc like your husband will. I have learned a great lesson and it has brought me so much closer to my husband recently. Some things are blessings from GOD - and are just sometimes in disguise. :)
DeleteThe leader of our Bible study has been talking a lot about this lately: warning us to be careful with friendships where a couple is breaking up or having troubles. She says that often misery loves company. I think by trying to point out "problems" with your marriage, it makes her feel better. Even among Christians, many people only want to hear that it is ok if they split up; they don't want to hear that you have worked on things and made them better or that you encourage them to stay together. Often this is why people go to secular counselors, because many of them will approve of the desire to divorce rather than encourage working through problems. While it's one thing to be supportive, I don't like my friendships to be complaining sessions and I try really hard not to criticize my husband to others because I wouldn't want him talking about me like that when I wasn't there.
ReplyDeleteI really like this! I always try to be positive about my husband and others' spouses but you've just given me some great ideas as to how to lift my friends up with our conversations :) Thank you!
ReplyDeleteRelationships!!! It is the bonding of feelings. I respect all the relationship. But it must be pure.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Kopi Luwak
What a great post. A true friend is a friend who builds up, not tears down.
ReplyDeleteThis post leaves my spirit troubled as well. I agree with your point that when women get together, it should be our desire to speak about things that deify our marriages, but I think you could have made this point without bringing your friend into it. I know you don't feel that she was a good friend to you, but what about you to her? Letting her pour her heart out about deeply personal issues, and then using her life, conversation and sin as an example for a blog post? I sincerely hope you gently explained to her why you feel the need to not associate with her anymore and that she didn't discover why you won't have coffee with her anymore when she read this post. I love what you're encouraging women to pursue here-I'm not loving the seemingly grace-less way in which you went about it. -Ann
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if you might have misunderstood me, Ann? This took place a number of years ago and, yes, I definitely explained to her my concerns and my desire to have a different tone in our conversation. And I sincerely hope my communication with her (and all my friends) was grace-infused.Thank you for being so sensitive. It is always my desire to be loving, as well as as truthful.
DeleteI completely agree with this comment... While I agree with the point made in the post, it seems to me a lot like gossip. Surely your friend will read your blog & know you are talking about her. Just because it is on the internet, doesn't make it anonymous or acceptable. It almost seems like a way to get back at her or to show you are right/better than her. "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." I am no one to judge you, I am just saying that when you are posting on being a godly wife & friend, I think you missed the mark yourself.
DeleteYou know, I used to be troubled about this myself--thinking it was gossip to talk about what you went through with another person. But in today's severely biblical-lacking perspective society, the REAL problem is that we don't understand who we should be friends with, and who we should simply be neighborly with. So, because we're often chided by the unbelievers (and sometimes even Christians who also haven't really studied the bible on this issue) because we aren't "friendly" with those who don't believe, we start to think that we should bring into our homes and lives those who really only tear us down--all in the name of being "Godly". This example does a LOT to help us identify who these people are that we should NOT be friends with. Neighborly, yes. Helpful when we have something to offer, certainly. But a place for them to air their dirty laundry and make us stink just as badly, certainly not.
DeleteAs far as gossip, no, not really. No names were used, no details. To us who were were not involved, it's an example, nothing more. It's not even written in a complaining way--more of an exploring way. If it WAS in a complaining way instead of a helpful way, then, yeah, it would simply be airing her dirty laundry, but that's not what she did.
I'm thinking that they aren't friends anymore, but even so, if the friend takes issue, maybe it's conviction since no one would know it's about her unless she opened her mouth and told someone. Also, if this was resolved, I doubt there'd be need for this post, since the friend was able to be helped. This is about people who demand a friend with criteria that the create instead of the criteria that God created. This is about it being okay to walk away from these people and for these reasons, so we don't become entangled with these sorts of draining people again because now we have a way to identify friendships better.
I agree with "2003f5f2-26b6-11e3-88d5-000bcdcb2996". The real problem we have is that we don't understand that we need to avoid unbelievers! I'm not saying you shouldn't witness to them but having coffee with one of them? I don't care if they say they are believers if they ain't actin like one then they ain't one! No fruit on the tree you know? And before people say it, no, Jesus did NOT "hang out" with unbelievers. He spent time witnessing to them but his friends were his disciples! And besides, you ain't Jesus darlin! Ha! So the next time someone tells you you aren't being "friendly" you tell them that if they knew Jesus they might get to see that friendly side of you! -Roberta
DeleteWhen my husband and I were going through a very difficult time in our marriage (to the point of separation) there were many 'friends' who were quick to say things like, "Well, there are plenty more fish in the sea", as though marriage were a commodity that could be disposed of when it became hard. It quickly became clear to me that true friends are hard to come by. I am forever grateful to the true friends who prayed for us, encouraged us and loved us BOTH through our difficulties.
ReplyDeleteI must say that people on my coffee-catch-up list are carefully selected. :)
This is a great post! Thank you for reminding us of this crucial point. Sometimes we do need to talk about the things we are struggling with but I've found it always good to counter-balance the conversation with what is going well - to think on true things.
ReplyDeleteIt is telling when someone complains about their marriage that in almost every case it's the other spouse that's the problem? Now, admittedly, in some cases that might be the truth. But so few take the time to try and see things from their spouse's point of view. Marriage is not an easy road; it's just worth the trip.
ReplyDeleteInspiring. I always tease my hubby that God made him with just enough flaws so that I don't forget I'm to worship God and not my husband. lol Thank you.
ReplyDeleteDonna, My Life. One Story at a Time.
I appreciate your point of view and see the wisdom in your choice. Yes, it is important not to let toxic attitude corrupt us, but did you talk to this new friend directly about this before deciding to dump her or publishing? Are you simply walking away from a new friendship leaving her not knowing why? Unless of course she reads this. Perhaps she is doing it subconsciously. If it were me, I'd want to know and be given the chance to work on myself with the feedback of a true friend. I would probably have difficulty hearing it and might even be angry/defensive in the beginning, but it would sit with me and eventually help me to overcome the problem. If you said nothing and she does not read this, she may keep doing the same over and over, losing lots of new 'friends' who just avoid her, building on depression and creating a kind of paranoia that we get in school where we think no one likes us and we have no idea why. I do not meean to criticize you. You were avoiding the negative. I just want to encourage you to talk to your friend before talking about her. If she cannot hear it, then the same decision to avoid her can be made. If she does, both you and she can be better for the learning experience.
ReplyDeleteOh yes, I did talk gently and directly to my friend on a number of occasions (this took place several years ago). Also, I don't avoid her - just that kind of talk that tears down your marriage and another person.
DeleteI am glad to hear you did that. Thanks for the reply.
DeleteI am forwarding this to my daughter. She has been married for less than 3 years, and a good friend, who is also married, has been doing this to her. Both couples are Christians, but the one couple is really struggling. Unfortunately, it has been starting to move into my daughter's marriage, and she has already backed up from her friendship. This will encourage her so much! Thank you!
ReplyDeletemy group of friends has one general rule when it comes to discussin marriage: never bad mouth our husbands...ever. If we wouldn't say it in his presence, we don't say it in his absence. It holds us all accountable and spurs us on to encouragement and integrity.
ReplyDeleteCan you pretty please put that photo on FB? I would love to share it! Great post. I can't encourage any friendship that hurts my marriage. My commitment to my marriage has to be before the commitment I make to my friends. If someone is going to tear down my marriage then I can't be part of that relationship. Really marriage is hard enough sometimes. I love my husband very much but everyone has moments!
ReplyDeleteThis is great! I love it!
ReplyDeleteBeautiful, truthful post!
ReplyDeleteWhat a wonderful, thought provoking post! It is far too easy to let others corrupt our view of the men in our lives, especially those who do not share our Biblical view of marriage and the relationship between a husband and wife. I will be posting a link later this week on my website (www.tuning-my-heart.com) to encourage my readers to consider your wise words.
ReplyDeleteI just went through a hard time in my marriage and I hate to admit it, but I probably dumped on my husband to a few people about something that happened (no it wasn't an affair) that was totally unexpected. Before this happened I would have, and I think I actually did look down on any women who would say anything bad about her husband or their marriage. Now, I only talked to select people but it was very hard for me to even get to that point because of my previous judgmental attitude about women who had "problems" in their marriage. I never encouraged anyone to be mad at their husbands and my complaint was pretty specific but it was true and I was struggling and I needed Bibical help and support. I specifically didn't go to counselors because I know both "Christian" and secular counselors often counsel for divorce over non-Bibically divorce issues. This post reminds me of how probably many of my friends view things. Unfortunately I don't feel I can ever have a deep friendship with any of these women and my trial pointed that out. Since I sensed they were unwilling or unable to love even when it was hard and cry with me not just smile with me, I never shared my hurts with them. I am still friends with them but it can never be deeper. Ironically the people I was able to share with, and who never encouraged me to leave my spouse or looked down on me (that I know of) for not having a "perfect" marriage at the time, came from unexpected places and where not "perfect" themselves. I was able to go deeper with them then I knew I could with someone and they are people I consider my true friends and whom I would do anything for. My trial has passed but it has shown me what it means to be a good and true friend and more of how to love like Jesus. I guess my question to this author would be, "what would Jesus do with this friend?" If she was tempting you to think bad about your marriage or have trouble with it then, no you should absolutely be cautious in that relationship, but I would be careful to condemn her for her attitudes until you walked in her shoes. Instead maybe pray for her if you can't be around her and encourage her to get Bibical counseling, director her to a friend stronger in the faith, or to a Bible study or to a Pastor. You know being Christian doesn't mean you don't have trials or problems in your marriage sometimes or that things happen. The New Testament actually tells us repeatedly that "You will have trials." And being a good friend (and a Bibical friend, the Bible says this too) means bearing one another's burdens. Again I want to emphasis that we are all at different places in our faith and if someone is truly causing you to sin you should pray for that person not be with that person. But I think we need to be sure they are actually causing us to sin not just an inconvenience or bringing us down. The two greatest commandments are to Love God and LOVE OTHERS AS YOURSELF. I know many of you don't think you will be in a predicament (I know I never thought I would) were you will really need someone, and maybe you won't, but just try to put yourself in a person's shoes that is having a hard time and then LOVE THEM AS YOU WOULD WANT TO BE LOVED. It truly may be you having the hard time one day. I just hope it won't take something really hard to make you truly compassionate to others in their hurts and trials, unfortunately that is what it took for me.
ReplyDeleteI so appreciate your compassionate heart. I also hope you understand that it's not possible - nor appropriate - to explain all the details of this situation in a short post like the one here? I have many dear friends who have walked through deep, deep waters in their marriage and we have certainly cried together. By God's amazing grace, they have walked (or are still walking in some cases) through their situation holding on to His strong hand. I'm thankful to hear that God brought you through your trial!
DeleteBlessings, Lisa
So good. I definitely notice how it is easier to complain around some people and not so much around others.
ReplyDeleteI think "husband bashing" is all too easy a trend to fall into! I'm very careful not to complain about my husband... but sometimes I think I take it too far. I rarely open up about issues that we're having with friends for fear it'll turn into a total bash-session. Any guidelines in ways to ask for advice or support without falling into the bash trap?
ReplyDeleteIf I have a friend that I suspect is being treated badly by her spouse, I am going to tell her. It is not loving or being a good friend to let someone get treated badly or spoken to "in that way" and I would tell her that in private as she did. There is nothing godly about pretending everything is shiny and perfect when it isn't, and anyone who doesn't think they deserve a support network because it might "bash" their spouse is setting themselves up for isolation and abuse.
ReplyDeleteI think you might be missing the point here. The woman was pointing out problems in Lisa's marriage that didn't exist. Lisa was there to listen and support her. But what she didn't want is someone who was making her feel badly about her own marriage that wasn't bad.
DeleteSeriously? I am in an abusive marriage and I spent years hiding the abuse because of the never-say-anything-bad-about-your-husband rule. When I finally did what that woman did and confided in a friend I finally got the attention of my pastor and got help. You need friends who encourage you? What about you being a friend who encourages people who need it? Selfishness that masquerades as righteousness is still selfishness.
ReplyDeleteIf you read the article again you will see that Lisa was sympathetic with her. It was only when she started being negative about Lisa's marriage (which wasn't in any way abusive) that she had a problem with the conversation. We need to be there for each other and support those who are hurting or those who are abused.
DeleteWhile we can step out and help others we must also be ready to protect our own in the process.
This is definitely not a never-say-anything-bad-about-your-husband post.
She's protecting her marriage. Does she not have a right to do that?
Here's a quote from the article. Lisa listened, she sympathized, she went out of her way to meet with the woman, she talked it through. She was a friend:
DeleteSo I met her for coffee and we talked it all through. She poured out her troubles and I listened as a good friend does. I heard about how he lets her down and how he doesn't understand her. I sympathized as she told me about his failures as a husband and what a disappointment he was as a dad. Just terrible.
I commend you on this article. It took me nine years after the break up of my 25 year marriage to realize that had I accentuated the positive in my former husband, that perhaps there would have been far less negative. At least on my side. His side only God knows.
ReplyDeleteMy best friend is good at making sure that I hang on when the going gets rough in my marriage. She is quick to point out another perspective if it's needed. She will pray with me as I need it. Marriage is such a near and dear issue to my heart! I love my husband and feel totally blessed to be his wife.
ReplyDeleteI think this post is remarkable advice we should all take to heart! All women need to encourage one another through the hard times of marriage. We need to find ways to ensure that institution of solid families stay in tack.
Awesome post!!!! this little "meetings" to complain are just a bad habits it has become a "norm" sadly. Most women (people in general) are ignorant of the power that words carry and how they curse their hubby's and themselves with those conversations. We are call to guard our hearts.♥ Let the renew of our minds be the focus of conversations!!!
ReplyDeletePhilippians 4:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things
http://www.openbible.info/topics/building_each_other_up
Shortly after my ex-husband walked out on our 12 year marriage (believe me a total shock - we worshipped the ground he walked on and thought the world of him) I had a "friend" come over one night to "support" us. She brought 2 other friends who I didnt know, trashy videos and chocolate. The idea was to cheer me up. Instead they drank too much, and they talked and complained all night about their own marriages and the many ways in which their husbands were lacking. (None of which were major dramas either) I failed to see how this was healthy, and it just made me feel more miserable. At least they HAD husbands for starters. Men who, though maybe not perfect, were prepared to say the course, and spend time with their families. (I believe they were at home looking after the kids so that they girls could have a night out) It makes me sad how many people find it easy to complain about their marriages, instead of focusing on all the things that their husbands contribute to their lives. There is always something to be grateful for.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you do if that person is your boss and is constantly coming into your work area to complain about her family? I really like her and since she is my boss, I feel like I can't ask her to leave and I can't go anywhere. I also feel like if I ask her to talk about something else, I will hurt her feelings and I do not want to do that. I do not do things with her outside of work, for that reason, but the conversations are still daily.
ReplyDeleteExcellent! Thank you, Lisa!
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed this post. I linked it up on my blog as a good read for "venters" We need to follow Ephesians 4:29 so much more often as women, wives and mothers. Thank you for your honesty.
ReplyDeleteI think some people may have missed your heart in this post. I understand what some of them are saying, but I also understand and agree with your post. I truly think it's just a misunderstanding and the enemy has twisted words in people's minds. Many years ago I used to get together with a friend and we would sit around bashing our husbands and kids, just out of frustration and the lack of control that comes with being a mother and a wife (and life!)...then one day I realized how yucky I felt and how much it was hindering my relationships with my family and clogging my mind. Now I hold my tongue when I want to complain about my husband, although if he were beating me or abusing me in any way I would seek help. But bashing just because I'm irritated is different than seeking Godly counsel for a problem. Talking about our problems with a victimization mentality gives life to those problems. Speaking life into our spouses and about them gives life to our spouse and our relationship! Seeking Godly counsel for problems that need solutions is also advised in the Bible. It seems to me that this post is referring to husband bashing, not problem solving. I appreciate your post! I think we all need to hear it! :)
ReplyDelete